Wilah from?

Harley · 3rd December 2011, 12:05 PM

Thanks Mr Maisey,

I really don't like the look of the kendit, when i made this sheath it was the only thing i could do to make the plain sheath more attractive, now i first would look for examples, and hopefully do a better job.
Thanks again for the measurements!

Hello Jean,

It's like David said, old wrapping and glue, i can understand that they were afraid to lose this beautiful hilt

To me it looks like a lose ganja, but it's indeed a very thin line, i think the person were i bought it from has painted the peksi en the ganja to save it from rust.

regards,
Ben

Jean · 3rd December 2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley

Hello Jean,

It's like David said, old wrapping and glue, i can understand that they were afraid to lose this beautiful hilt

To me it looks like a lose ganja, but it's indeed a very thin line, i think the person were i bought it from has painted the peksi en the ganja to save it from rust.

regards,
Ben

OK, thanks for the confirmation and information about this strange black colour of the peksi and ganja.
By the way I am not very familiar with old Balinese blades and would not have identified this one as Balinese, thank you Alan!
Regards
Jean

Harley · 3rd December 2011, 06:57 PM

I hope you guys can help me with another question, the grain in de java
sheaths are vertical, but so far i can see it from pictures on the net, i rather think that in Bali sheaths the grain is horizontal.
Is that right?

A. G. Maisey · 3rd December 2011, 09:24 PM

Yes Harley, the grain in most Bali scabbards is horizontal.

However, it is not that simple with Javanese scabbards.

The ideal grain orientation for a Javanese scabbard is with the grain running at about 40 degrees from the top right, to the bottom left, with the scabbard facing you.

That is the ideal, but a tukang wrongko will change this ideal orientation to suit the grain of the wood, the size of the wood, and to maximize effect.

In some woods it is not possible to get a piece of wood large enough to allow the ideal grain orientation, for instance, in scented sandalwood pieces large enough to allow cutting across the grain have become quite rare.

The examples:-

A--- shown in reverse to allow better ID of grain orientation; this is a typical, village quality Bali scabbard

B--- better quality Bali in timoho

C--- the angle of the grain in this East Javanese scabbard is a trifle too steep.

D--- Solo, and the angle is far too steep, almost vertical

E--- Solo, and the grain is absolutely horizontal, dictated by the size of the wood available.

F--- Solo, and the angle is close to ideal.

G--- Solo, and carved to maximize grain effect.

Mostly fancy grain in a log is maximised by quarter sawing that log, and this is the way we achieve the best results with fancy grains such as feather crotch( Jawa:- simbar), but the tukang wrongko does not have control over the sawing of the log, he gets a precut plank or even a roughed out bakalan , and he needs to make the best of what he has been given.

David · 3rd December 2011, 10:23 PM

Thanks for this illustrated post Alan. Very good information...

Harley · 3rd December 2011, 10:39 PM

I am glad that it is, i was already started, with the risk of trowing it away when i was wrong.

I did not expected it was so complicated with the Javanese scabbard, but now i know and can take it to my advance.
I am purely a hobbyist, ho wants to do his best to restore the neglected keris,
cause over here there are a lot of them.
I definitely have not the skills of the craftsmen in Indonesie, not even by far,
but i like doing it.
The examples are really beautiful, very good for inspiration, i see that i had a different example then the Bali gayaman that are placed.
This is what i have done so far, of course it's only the rough form.
Thank you Mr Maisey for your explanation!

A. G. Maisey · 3rd December 2011, 11:53 PM

Looks good Harley, you've got talent.

But don't forget the contouring, this is difficult to see in photos and you really need an example in the hand to follow.

Sajen · 4th December 2011, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Looks good Harley, you've got talent.

This I only can confirm!

3rd December 2011, 09:24 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Yes Harley, the grain in most Bali scabbards is horizontal. However, it is not that simple with Javanese scabbards. The ideal grain orientation for a Javanese scabbard is with the grain running at about 40 degrees from the top right, to the bottom left, with the scabbard facing you. That is the ideal, but a tukang wrongko will change this ideal orientation to suit the grain of the wood, the size of the wood, and to maximize effect. In some woods it is not possible to get a piece of wood large enough to allow the ideal grain orientation, for instance, in scented sandalwood pieces large enough to allow cutting across the grain have become quite rare. The examples:- A--- shown in reverse to allow better ID of grain orientation; this is a typical, village quality Bali scabbard B--- better quality Bali in timoho C--- the angle of the grain in this East Javanese scabbard is a trifle too steep. D--- Solo, and the angle is far too steep, almost vertical E--- Solo, and the grain is absolutely horizontal, dictated by the size of the wood available. F--- Solo, and the angle is close to ideal. G--- Solo, and carved to maximize grain effect. Mostly fancy grain in a log is maximised by quarter sawing that log, and this is the way we achieve the best results with fancy grains such as feather crotch( Jawa:- simbar), but the tukang wrongko does not have control over the sawing of the log, he gets a precut plank or even a roughed out bakalan , and he needs to make the best of what he has been given. Attached Images

3rd December 2011, 10:39 PM	#6
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	I am glad that it is, i was already started, with the risk of trowing it away when i was wrong. I did not expected it was so complicated with the Javanese scabbard, but now i know and can take it to my advance. I am purely a hobbyist, ho wants to do his best to restore the neglected keris, cause over here there are a lot of them. I definitely have not the skills of the craftsmen in Indonesie, not even by far, but i like doing it. The examples are really beautiful, very good for inspiration, i see that i had a different example then the Bali gayaman that are placed. This is what i have done so far, of course it's only the rough form. Thank you Mr Maisey for your explanation! Attached Images

3rd December 2011, 12:05 PM	#1
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Thanks Mr Maisey, I really don't like the look of the kendit, when i made this sheath it was the only thing i could do to make the plain sheath more attractive, now i first would look for examples, and hopefully do a better job. Thanks again for the measurements! Hello Jean, It's like David said, old wrapping and glue, i can understand that they were afraid to lose this beautiful hilt To me it looks like a lose ganja, but it's indeed a very thin line, i think the person were i bought it from has painted the peksi en the ganja to save it from rust. regards, Ben

3rd December 2011, 06:57 PM	#3
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	I hope you guys can help me with another question, the grain in de java sheaths are vertical, but so far i can see it from pictures on the net, i rather think that in Bali sheaths the grain is horizontal. Is that right?

3rd December 2011, 10:23 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Thanks for this illustrated post Alan. Very good information...

3rd December 2011, 11:53 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,013	Looks good Harley, you've got talent. But don't forget the contouring, this is difficult to see in photos and you really need an example in the hand to follow.