Wilah from?

[Sajen]

Hello Ben,

yes, the part down from the sampir/warangka or wrongko is called by javanese keris gandar; by keris from Bali penyejer. The pendok from your keris isn't a balinese one so my assumption that it was placed to cover a demaged gandar/penyejer. A gandar isn't never original cut in down or open.

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

There is also a chance that this is a Bali/Madura piece, that is, a keris from Madura that is for a member of cultural Balinese living there. This type of pendok with the open window down the center is not something i have seen on Bali or Lombak keris and is more common to Madura/East Jawa wrongko. I would also like to see a closer view of the hilt because i an not convinced from the present photos that this hilt is truly Balinese. There appears to be a missing "selut" of some sort and it does not look like the kind that i would expect on a Balinese hilt. At 15 inches this could well be a Bali/Lombok blade, but they often tend to be even longer than that. The state of polish alone is not necessarily an indicator of place of origin.

[Sajen]

When I look again to your sheath I understand why you have thought that it is a sheath from Sumatra/Palembang. The sheath look like the carver hasn't known how to look a sesrengentan sheath from Bali and have created a mixture from this both sheaths.
For better understanding I have attached pictures from your sheath beside from both sheath forms. The sesrengentan pictures are taken from the book "Keris Bali Bersejarah".

[Harley]

Hello Detlef & David,

David, the pendok is really someone's homework, so I think it was made this way because there is no grade of difficultly to make it, but thats my opinion.
I have enclosed 2 pictures of the hilt, it is kind of strange that the bottom part totally is different than what i have seen.
It was not only the polished wilah, but also the extreme peksi, i really don't no what other kind of hilt would fit.

Detlef, you hit the nail on the head, i have that same example here, en even now i know that it's Bali, i can't help that i still think that he looks more like the Palembang, maybe a Monday morning product

Thanks for the answers.

regards,
Ben

[David]

Originally Posted by Harley

Detlef, you hit the nail on the head, i have that same example here, en even now i know that it's Bali, i can't help that i still think that he looks more like the Palembang, maybe a Monday morning product

Well again Ben, the more i see of this dress the more i am convinced that it does not originate from either Bali or Lombok. The lack of the proper nuances of the true sesrengantan form, the use of this type of pendok (whether "homemade" or not) and the close-up of the roughly hewn hilt just don't jive with work i would expect from the actual Bali or Lombok culture.
Seeing this blade in cleaned up and in proper stain might help a bit with pinpointing it's origin.

[Harley]

Now it's rather getting puzzled , I agree that the hilt is from a very poor quality, but are there more area's where they use this kind of hilt?
I am working on it David, from what i have seen the blade is very quick responding on the warangan, I only was cleaning the blade but in the juice
there was probably some old warangan, so i could see the blackness on the blade with very clear pamor, but i cleaned it off because i need the blade to make the new gandar.
Thanks for your contribution David.

regards,
Ben

[A. G. Maisey]

When I look at this keris what I believe I see is a plain but good Balinese blade in very sub-standard dress.

There is no doubt in my mind that the blade is Balinese:- the pesi is typically Balinese, and as Harley has noted, what type of hilt other than Balinese will fit it; the pamor is typical coarse Bali pamor, the unetched blade finish typical Balinese, the neat, positive garap typically Balinese. What else could it be but Balinese?

But the dress is a fish of a different feather.

Plain ugly.

As Detlef has commented, it looks as if the carver set out to make a scabbard form of which he only had a very sketchy idea.

The hilt is poorly carved, again it looks as if the maker was running on depleted memory banks.

If it was collected in Bali in the period 1920 to 1940, we are looking at the period when tourism was just beginning in Bali. The puputans had all but extinguished the previous social structure, the Dutch then tried to turn Bali into a living museum, tourism had not developed to anywhere near what we see today, the Balinese craftsmen and artists were coming under the influence of European artists, as well as being influenced by what European tourists wanted. Much of the refinement that we expect to see in Balinese art and craft at the present time is very probably due in great measure to the millions of foreign visitors that Bali admits each year. If we look closely at pre-European influenced Balinese style and art, it is very much closer to the tribal art of various areas in S.E. Asia.

Yes, millions of visitors. Over 2,500,000 arrivals in 2010. That's a big market, and the artisans of Bali do their best to satisfy it.

If we go back to the period between 1920 and 1940 it was a totally different picture. Even in 1966 there were hardly any foreigners in South Bali, and entry and exit was not nearly as easy as it is today.

To a large degree the foreign visitors to Bali have created the art of Bali, or more correctly, European perspectives have been responsible for the development of existing art norms to the point where common people can afford the level of refinement that was once only available to kings and princes.

We could hypothesise about the origins of this scabbard and hilt all day, but my personal opinion is that it was made in Bali, by a carver of no particular talent, however, from what I can see of the pendok, this does not look like Balinese workmanship, nor design. I think the pendok is a later addition.

[Harley]

Dear Mr Maisey,

Thank you for your explanation, the blade Bali, good but simple, the rest is going in the parts box
I am going to try to make the sheath myself, never had tried one from Bali, but if you don't try, you never know.
Because it's a simple blade, what do you think would be a better dress for it,
gayaman, or the one that Detlef mentioned (sesrengantan)?

Thanks again everyone, for helping out!

regards,
Ben

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We could hypothesise about the origins of this scabbard and hilt all day, but my personal opinion is that it was made in Bali, by a carver of no particular talent, however, from what I can see of the pendok, this does not look like Balinese workmanship, nor design. I think the pendok is a later addition.

I know how much you hate guessing games, but would it make sense that this keris may have ended up on a different island given the style of the pendok (whether well made or not) that was added. It just seems so out of place for a Bali keris. I find it hard to believe that a native Balinese would have this added to his keris even if it was to be done on the cheap. I can accept that a sheath might be this poorly conceived by a native Balinese but the pendok seems such a mysterious addition throwing the entire ensemble off for me.

[Harley]

David,

I can image n that probably something like you said, has happened with this keris.
It could be that someone bought the keris from Bali, and was living in another area, there the keris has fallen or somehow broke, and they repaired it with
everything they could lay there hands on.
And years later we trying to resolve the mystery

regards,
Ben