Interesting Unusual Rapier for comments

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Yup! She has been a busy girl, and most certainly as each successive owner discovers she is ' not quite what she seems' (memories of ex wives she is passed off to the next owner, and so on. Much like Gene's fine example, a truly classical form, or actually composite of them, but done in stately manner, actually not originally intended to deceive but to carry forward traditions of long ago. Most intriguing, actually exciting, of all is that the blade, which bears the poincon of Augusti Mathuri, which as I perceive from the excellent source Fernando suggested, is the name of the inspector c.1830-32 at Klingenthal. The script on Gene's rapier at the forte seems to read Solingen, a curious application if this was made at Klingenthal...the one in similar configuration on Dmitry's rapier appears illegible script...as noted the same poincon.
The obvious and compelling suggestion is indeed, probably the same blade source, and with the equitable styling of the hilts, probably same shop.
Clearly the earliest date 1830 based on the poincon, with the range of probable fabrication probably well into the 'Victorian' period and the 'romantic' movement which was noted as Historimus period in Germany contemporarily.
The fascination in anachronistic items of arms and armour in Europe and Victorian England seems to have been quite literally spurred by literature such as "Ivanhoe" by Sir Walter Scott, and study's and smoking parlors were carefully appointed with items of arms and especially armour of the Middle Ages. It seems that as this propensity continued, there appeared a demand for replica items as availability of actual items diminished and of course and accordingly costs rose.
There was a compelling drive to allude to the noble heritage of times long gone, and as Ernst Schmitt of Munich, one of the best known makers of classical replicas, is described from his work beginning in the 1870s, he did not intend to deceive but to as faithfully copy originals as possible. In many cases if not most, in comparison the two are often indiscernable unless displayed side by side.

The references to Victorian replicas and more disparaging the term 'wall hangers' or at worst, 'fakes' have been applied to many of these, however many of these, or in my opinion all, are venerable antiques in thier own right.

While establishing that the replicas of the Victorian period are of course well known and authentic in appearance, the course I feel important to follow here is to discover more on the likelihood of Gene's rapier actually being a serviceable weapon, and for that matter Dmitry's, now that it has been shown as a comparable and similar piece. Yes, yes I know.....Victor Hugo would be proud with such run on sentences...but we are talking about classics, yes?!!!

In reading on descriptions of replicas of Schmitt's, many of which have been displayed in the most reputable institutions, such as John Woodman Higgins museum in Worcester, Mass. and even the Royal Armouries. Actually the late Ewart Oakeshott even afforded a designation in his esteemed typology, XXI, considered 'modern' reproduction (meaning not of period it represents).
It is worthy of note that in handling one of these replica swords, they are often point heavy in some, and center of percussion and POB are not necessarily attainable.

Gene has described his rapier as well balanced, and quite comfortable in the hand, I think assessments not lightly placed by someone knowledeable in the art of fence. Its construction, while not necessarily in accord with actual pieces of the period (s) represented in the composite grouping of elements, is
well executed for its purpose, not only in possible wear or perhaps ceremonial use. I continue to submit that weapons of classical form known to have been produced well into later times were likely to have been used by civic or fraternal military groups in Europe, and likely fabricated in Klingenthal as well as Solingen. Many Solingen smiths indeed did emigrate to other countries, and it is well known that Alsace (location of Klingenthal) is culturally as much German as it is French.

In the Netherlands, or in the period we are discussing, the Dutch Republic(if I term correctly) from the Napoleonic period onwards had been deeply influenced by France, actually even annexed at one point. The developing of Dutch nationalism, much as throughout Europe, was becoming well established and much as elsewhere, the reflection of important traditions and heritage were keenly evident.

I for one, cannot resist the idea in viewing this interesting rapier, that it may reflect earlier heritage in the classic form elements, such as the very businesslike pierced disc shellguard recalling not only the cavalry swords of 17th century Europe in the general walloon form, but the bilobate rings of French duelling epee's in the 19th century. The classic form of the grip seen in blackened steel form hilts of 18th century court and smallswords (Aylward, 1945) and the closed C knuckleguard terminal (Norman, 1980) and even the rugged assemblage resembling the Industrial period of latter 18th c. England (Boulton's cut steel smallswords)....seem to imply a weapon intended for contemporary use, despite anachronistic form, and in the manner of the 19th century revivalism which may have preceded the larger Historismus movement.

Again, my thoughts of the day and I would like very much to hear other views on this in hopes this discussion will continue. Yes, indeed, these 'girls' (the sword is considered the 'queen of weapons') have been busy, and I think they are trying to tell us more.

All best regards,
Jim

LOL, I think we may have dated similar ladies Jim!

I have to say that I completely agree that these do not qualify as 'replicas' as they are not actual copies of anything.
When they were made they seem to have been made using contemporary military blades with the addition of archaic style hilts.
When I think of victorian copies, I think of elaborate romanticised but reasonably accurate and 'fancy' rapiers, and of course the 'Anton Konrad' type fakes of the 1920s.

I once had a beautiful Victorian cup-hilt rapier with an exquisite pierced blade, pierced and chiseled cup etc. Beautiful thing. Threaded tang and srew-on pomel though.
Still, it WAS meant for the wall and nothing else so it was all form over function

Although my fencing days are long behind me, I was an enthusiastic amateur at one stage and although I couldn't now remember any but the most basic terminology I do remember the long practiced moves and counter moves even after all these years.
One of the things that attracted me to this sword was its balance and 'feel'.

Of course it helps that the blade is 'real', but the makers have also had to get the hilt right. The grip is suprisingly comfortable and 'fits' the hand well. The hilt isn't overly heavy and the balance feels right. The tang is peened over very securely as you can see in the pictures. The hilt is completely firm and solid.

It's as 'servicable' a weapon as any other that I own. More so than many in fact.

As you know Jim, I aslo cannot help but think that this sword many have been made for a specific organisation or commisioned for a specific purpose, rather than simply being a decorator piece.

As a final note on 'Victorian rapiers' of the purely decorative/replica type. Frankly I wish I'd bought many of the 'pretty' ones I've seen over the years.
The traditional snobbery of collectors toward these seems ridiculous and misplaced in todays market as prices of contemorary swords of the 19th/early 20th century have continued to rise and prices for authentic rapiers of period date have exceeded most collectors pockets.
Like many other things, there will come a time when we all regret not buying more of these 'Victorian' copies (rapiers and others!).