The basics of keris understanding?

Montino Bourbon · 17th November 2011, 03:12 AM

I know very little about Keris; I have collected a few, and I probably have some decent ones. My favorite one came from a pawn shop here in Santa Barbara. About 10 years ago, I happened to walk in, and saw some Keris hanging on the wall. There was one that I immediately felt an affinity to; the handle was in the shape of Petruk, very finely carved, the scabbard was very finely painted, and the blade seemed old. The layers looked quite fine, and there were some interesting details in the Pamor. I offered them money, but they turned me down.

I went home, and that night I had a very vivid dream about that Keris, a dream in which I owned it and it was my friend. (!?) Yes, I know, it seems a little bit strange, but I kept going into the shop and offering them more money, in $50 increments. Finally I told them that this was an Italian auction; I would get to a point where I would simply not bother coming back. They would not know what my maximum was; all they would know is that I was finished bidding.

That was when they decided they would sell it to me. Since then, I've sent pictures of that particular Keris to Alan, who has been kind enough to give me quite a bit of information on it.

My decision was based on several things:

A– the beauty of the handle carving, the fineness of the Pamor, and the unbelievable fineness of the painting;

B– the affinity that I felt. Call it psychic, call it spiritual, call it whatever you want; I just KNEW that this was my long-lost friend. Although I own several Keris, this particular one speaks to me without the shadow of a doubt.

I know almost nothing about Tanguh, Dapur, and other particulars of the Keris; I just know what I like, and what I feel.

Jussi M. · 17th November 2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montino Bourbon

I know almost nothing about Tanguh, Dapur, and other particulars of the Keris; I just know what I like, and what I feel.

What a fascinating story! Thank you for telling it to us. I bet you felt good when you finally were able to give home to your friend

I have absolutely no clue whatsoever on the particulars either but I do know what something feels to me. - My answer now moves along way to what was discussed a while back in the "Appreciation" thread, yet I feel (pun intended) we are tightly within the topic of this thread also as I stated on the opening post that.

In your subjectively objective opinion what forms the core of the understanding of the keris? What areas should be addressed? - How, what, why?

The attempt of trying to gain a complete understanding on such a vast subject as the keris is - in my opinion - a futile task. It cannot be achieved. Much how ever can be achieved and the joy of learning is the best reward.

Now from my personal perspective I tend to look at the keris with four different set of eyeglasses: as a cultural phenomena, as a time machine, as a story teller and lastly but not least, as an object of art. The first three are related to studying the keris as a hobby and whilst I do give these views space when deciding on possible acquisitions it is the last that either makes or breaks my interested on any keris. That is the "feel" I get from it. A keris for me has to have "cadence". It does not matter whether it is steady, broken, fast or mellow it has to evoke a feel of movement or a pause in between that I like. If I do not like the "cadence" of a keris it most likely is not going to play part in my little ensemble of pointy gamelan. Yeah, consideration is given to "tonality" also but for me the appreciation of tonal characteristics is more of a learnt thing whereas good cadence is something I appreciate intuitively.

So "cadence" it is for me. The rest is more learnt appreciation behavior that stems from studying the subject. To express the same in other words I tend to look at kerises very "monochromatically". Basically what I am saying is that being personally drawn to a keris regardless on how it stacks on other criteria should always count if not for another reason for the fact that this cannot be avoided.

Did a bit messy writing above but I hope you get my drift. Something like this is a bit difficult to bring across right for a non native English writer.

Thanks,

J.

A. G. Maisey · 17th November 2011, 08:46 PM

My posts sometimes become overlong and twisting to the point where many people probably don't read them, or if they do, they don't understand what I've written.

I'll try to keep this post brief and to the point.

This Forum is mostly frequented by collectors.

There are very few collectors in any field who want to move past the simple acquisition of objects.

Acquire : identify : catalogue : move on

When a collector diverges from this basic behaviour pattern and seeks some deeper knowledge that concerns the objects he collects, he moves from being a collector to being a student.

Students study. This is what defines a student, the act of study.

But before study can be undertaken, it is necessary to identify the area that needs to be studied.

Jussi has identified several possible areas of study.

Has anybody ever delved more than superficially into any of these areas?

If so, perhaps those people could share their experiences with us, in the hope that it might perhaps encourage others to move from being simple collectors, to being slightly less than simple students.

Jean · 18th November 2011, 09:22 AM

The title of this thread is "The basics of keris understanding". IMO this is a quite ambitious project considering the lack of reliable historical records and many legends and myths about the subject.
Alan made an excellent overview of the practical situation: yes, most of us are just collectors, why?
Because it is very difficult to get a deeper knowledge of the keris without learning the Javanese and other Indonesian cultures and this is quite impossible if you don't live there and have access to an experienced teacher (they virtually disappeared). Even so and having lived in Indonesia, a Westerner would need a very deep effort to switch his rational mind to this complex culture.
About my personal experience: As a kris book author, I have tried to learn whatever materials is available on the subject but admittedtly limiting myself to the kris. I attempted to understand a bit of the Javanese culture by reading a book about Kejawen (Javanese traditional spiritual teaching) but I did not "bite" into it. I also tried to study, understand, and present the tangguh classification of the Javanese blades with the help of Alan, but the result turned to be disappointing to the point that I have decided not to publish my next book at least in the near future.
Regards
Jean

Jussi M. · 18th November 2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

The title of this thread is "The basics of keris understanding". IMO this is a quite ambitious project considering the lack of reliable historical records and many legends and myths about the subject.

True. Yet a lot can be accomplished. For example one does not need to transport himself magically onto centuries afar to gain some understanding of the mechanics involved in the actual making process of a keris nor needs one to become a 1700 Javanese to gain some understanding of the importance and the many roles that the keris had in times past, how it evolved and continues to evolve even today.

Learning about history, culture, sociology etc can be enlightening as all this information - because this is how we learn - becomes more or less intentionally contrasted to where you are now, what kind of values you have, how you operate in the world and what are the drivers that motivate and give meaning to you. Thus any honest attempt to understand something a bit better regardless the field taken leads to a bit better understanding of yourself. If this vessel is the keris why should one not take it

Besides what is understanding anyways?

As a personal remark not aimed at anyone in particular, does it really matter where you´ll reach if you enjoy the journey?

Thanks,

J.

David · 18th November 2011, 04:05 PM

For me personally it is absolutely essential to spend a good deal of time attempting to understand the culture which the keris emerges from if one is to understand anything about the keris. Of course it is a difficult task and i do not feel that i have been at all fully successful in my studies, but the keris is meaningless in a vacuum as anything beyond a curious art object. What's problematic is that we must try to understand that Indonesia is a multi-cultural society so understanding varies from place to place and era to era. What's more, even in a single location such as Jawa the understanding and attitudes of the keris has changed over the centuries and through those changes a mingling of traditions has occurred. Kejawen or Kebatinan traditions, for instance, have assimilated outside influences over the years, adding bits and pieces of Islamic and Hindu thought to it's practice. Changes in keris understanding undoubtably took place as the Mojophahit kingdom was supplanted by an Islamic empire. In fact, with every shift of power i am sure came certain changes in the understanding of the keris and it's role in the culture and society.
Frankly, what i am least interested in when it come to keris is the actual mechanical process involved in it's creation. Of course i do seek some basic knowledge on the subject, but i don't see it as a key to understanding. One does need to develop an idea of what constitutes a "good" keris and keep in mind that ultimately the keris is a keraton art that has certain standards of excellence to be held to and various pakems which must be met to qualify for that level of keris art. Though i must admit that i am just as interested and enamored by keris made to meet the needs of the common people. The bottom line for me is similar to what Jussi had to say before about "cadence". Certainly a keris must speak to me if it is to join my family of blades. And i do consider my keris to be my children of sorts. It must, as Jussi puts it, have a kind of "cadence". For me that can just as easily be a village made blade as one from a keraton empu. There are different standards for evaluating both. Some village made keris may not have the technical excellence of form as some keraton keris, but they might appeal to me as art much in the same way that a painting by some Art Naiveté artist such as Rousseau can be seen a masterpiece.
I also do not find the study of keris mythology and legend to be fruitless in the understanding the keris. These myths and legends arise from the culture for reasons and reflect certain attitudes of that culture and it's people. It is important for one to understand that the "truth" in these legends is not as important as understanding that it may be what the people believe even if there is no real fact in them.

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2011, 08:49 PM

More than ten years ago I wrote a little article entitled "The Keris and the Naga". It was published in an antique arms collector's journal, and it did not attract any attention , nor comment, of note. I think it is pretty much unknown.

However, in that article I did address the problems of attempting to understand the keris, and for anybody trying to come to terms with an understanding of the keris, the ten minutes or so that it will take to read that article could be time well spent.

I will not provide a link to this article, because doing so could infringe Forum rules, however, for anybody with any interest, it is easy enough to find in my site.

The field of keris study is very broad, and because of this there are many ways in which to approach the study of the keris. Study can be approached from a cultural perspective, a technical perspective, the perspective of art, the perspective of history. We can study the keris belief systems that are so beloved of Javanese students of the keris. We can study the way in which collectors of the keris in the Western World (whatever that means) approach the keris.

Lots of ways to go.

I personally doubt that it is possible for anybody to come to a thorough understanding of all aspects of the keris, in all times and all places. Perhaps an attempt at this could finish up producing a George Cameron Stone result:- massive superficial coverage, but no depth of understanding at all. In effect, a storekeeper's primer that will permit reasonably accurate cataloging and filing.

For this reason, my personal belief is that if one is to truly understand the keris in any one of its roles, one needs to identify the area of greatest interest, in respect of geographic area, and area of knowledge, and within a defined time frame, and then to concentrate most of one's attention on that particular area.

In my own case, my specific area of interest is the pre-Islamic keris and its place within Javanese society. But this does not mean I have turned my back on all other aspects of the keris, it simply means that the very limited time I have available for study is directed towards attempts to gain a better understanding of the keris within the time and place I have identified.

17th November 2011, 03:12 AM	#1
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	All right, I'll jump in. I know very little about Keris; I have collected a few, and I probably have some decent ones. My favorite one came from a pawn shop here in Santa Barbara. About 10 years ago, I happened to walk in, and saw some Keris hanging on the wall. There was one that I immediately felt an affinity to; the handle was in the shape of Petruk, very finely carved, the scabbard was very finely painted, and the blade seemed old. The layers looked quite fine, and there were some interesting details in the Pamor. I offered them money, but they turned me down. I went home, and that night I had a very vivid dream about that Keris, a dream in which I owned it and it was my friend. (!?) Yes, I know, it seems a little bit strange, but I kept going into the shop and offering them more money, in $50 increments. Finally I told them that this was an Italian auction; I would get to a point where I would simply not bother coming back. They would not know what my maximum was; all they would know is that I was finished bidding. That was when they decided they would sell it to me. Since then, I've sent pictures of that particular Keris to Alan, who has been kind enough to give me quite a bit of information on it. My decision was based on several things: A– the beauty of the handle carving, the fineness of the Pamor, and the unbelievable fineness of the painting; B– the affinity that I felt. Call it psychic, call it spiritual, call it whatever you want; I just KNEW that this was my long-lost friend. Although I own several Keris, this particular one speaks to me without the shadow of a doubt. I know almost nothing about Tanguh, Dapur, and other particulars of the Keris; I just know what I like, and what I feel.

18th November 2011, 04:05 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	For me personally it is absolutely essential to spend a good deal of time attempting to understand the culture which the keris emerges from if one is to understand anything about the keris. Of course it is a difficult task and i do not feel that i have been at all fully successful in my studies, but the keris is meaningless in a vacuum as anything beyond a curious art object. What's problematic is that we must try to understand that Indonesia is a multi-cultural society so understanding varies from place to place and era to era. What's more, even in a single location such as Jawa the understanding and attitudes of the keris has changed over the centuries and through those changes a mingling of traditions has occurred. Kejawen or Kebatinan traditions, for instance, have assimilated outside influences over the years, adding bits and pieces of Islamic and Hindu thought to it's practice. Changes in keris understanding undoubtably took place as the Mojophahit kingdom was supplanted by an Islamic empire. In fact, with every shift of power i am sure came certain changes in the understanding of the keris and it's role in the culture and society. Frankly, what i am least interested in when it come to keris is the actual mechanical process involved in it's creation. Of course i do seek some basic knowledge on the subject, but i don't see it as a key to understanding. One does need to develop an idea of what constitutes a "good" keris and keep in mind that ultimately the keris is a keraton art that has certain standards of excellence to be held to and various pakems which must be met to qualify for that level of keris art. Though i must admit that i am just as interested and enamored by keris made to meet the needs of the common people. The bottom line for me is similar to what Jussi had to say before about "cadence". Certainly a keris must speak to me if it is to join my family of blades. And i do consider my keris to be my children of sorts. It must, as Jussi puts it, have a kind of "cadence". For me that can just as easily be a village made blade as one from a keraton empu. There are different standards for evaluating both. Some village made keris may not have the technical excellence of form as some keraton keris, but they might appeal to me as art much in the same way that a painting by some Art Naiveté artist such as Rousseau can be seen a masterpiece. I also do not find the study of keris mythology and legend to be fruitless in the understanding the keris. These myths and legends arise from the culture for reasons and reflect certain attitudes of that culture and it's people. It is important for one to understand that the "truth" in these legends is not as important as understanding that it may be what the people believe even if there is no real fact in them. Last edited by David; 18th November 2011 at 07:18 PM.

17th November 2011, 08:46 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	My posts sometimes become overlong and twisting to the point where many people probably don't read them, or if they do, they don't understand what I've written. I'll try to keep this post brief and to the point. This Forum is mostly frequented by collectors. There are very few collectors in any field who want to move past the simple acquisition of objects. Acquire : identify : catalogue : move on When a collector diverges from this basic behaviour pattern and seeks some deeper knowledge that concerns the objects he collects, he moves from being a collector to being a student. Students study. This is what defines a student, the act of study. But before study can be undertaken, it is necessary to identify the area that needs to be studied. Jussi has identified several possible areas of study. Has anybody ever delved more than superficially into any of these areas? If so, perhaps those people could share their experiences with us, in the hope that it might perhaps encourage others to move from being simple collectors, to being slightly less than simple students.

18th November 2011, 09:22 AM	#4
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	The title of this thread is "The basics of keris understanding". IMO this is a quite ambitious project considering the lack of reliable historical records and many legends and myths about the subject. Alan made an excellent overview of the practical situation: yes, most of us are just collectors, why? Because it is very difficult to get a deeper knowledge of the keris without learning the Javanese and other Indonesian cultures and this is quite impossible if you don't live there and have access to an experienced teacher (they virtually disappeared). Even so and having lived in Indonesia, a Westerner would need a very deep effort to switch his rational mind to this complex culture. About my personal experience: As a kris book author, I have tried to learn whatever materials is available on the subject but admittedtly limiting myself to the kris. I attempted to understand a bit of the Javanese culture by reading a book about Kejawen (Javanese traditional spiritual teaching) but I did not "bite" into it. I also tried to study, understand, and present the tangguh classification of the Javanese blades with the help of Alan, but the result turned to be disappointing to the point that I have decided not to publish my next book at least in the near future. Regards Jean

18th November 2011, 08:49 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	More than ten years ago I wrote a little article entitled "The Keris and the Naga". It was published in an antique arms collector's journal, and it did not attract any attention , nor comment, of note. I think it is pretty much unknown. However, in that article I did address the problems of attempting to understand the keris, and for anybody trying to come to terms with an understanding of the keris, the ten minutes or so that it will take to read that article could be time well spent. I will not provide a link to this article, because doing so could infringe Forum rules, however, for anybody with any interest, it is easy enough to find in my site. The field of keris study is very broad, and because of this there are many ways in which to approach the study of the keris. Study can be approached from a cultural perspective, a technical perspective, the perspective of art, the perspective of history. We can study the keris belief systems that are so beloved of Javanese students of the keris. We can study the way in which collectors of the keris in the Western World (whatever that means) approach the keris. Lots of ways to go. I personally doubt that it is possible for anybody to come to a thorough understanding of all aspects of the keris, in all times and all places. Perhaps an attempt at this could finish up producing a George Cameron Stone result:- massive superficial coverage, but no depth of understanding at all. In effect, a storekeeper's primer that will permit reasonably accurate cataloging and filing. For this reason, my personal belief is that if one is to truly understand the keris in any one of its roles, one needs to identify the area of greatest interest, in respect of geographic area, and area of knowledge, and within a defined time frame, and then to concentrate most of one's attention on that particular area. In my own case, my specific area of interest is the pre-Islamic keris and its place within Javanese society. But this does not mean I have turned my back on all other aspects of the keris, it simply means that the very limited time I have available for study is directed towards attempts to gain a better understanding of the keris within the time and place I have identified.