Kris Handle and Lion Scabbard

[A. G. Maisey]

Rick, I don't consider the lion wrongko form to be all that common. Yes, we've seen a few put up here over time, but prior to the internet revolution, the average western collector would have killed to get his hands on a lion wrongko. In my entire collecting life I've seen no more than half a dozen or so old lion form wrongkos. Bearing in mind the number of keris I routinely handle, half a dozen of anything is a very small number of examples.

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In my entire collecting life I've seen no more than half a dozen or so old lion form wrongkos.

Dear Alan,
How old do you estimate this wrongko to be ?

In the Netherlands we see this shape quite often.
But often they are of lesser quality and most of them appear to be vet.bring back keris post WW 2

Best regards,
Willem

Ps. nice ukiran and wrongko. I would guess them to be a set as they have similar patina.

[Rick]

Alan, the carving of the lion is quite good; if this is old work then I agree with you; hard to find .
My own example I consider new; it does not have half the style that this example shows .

[edit]
If these are rare in the local environment and the 'tide of conquest' has taken them West, could they not have been originally intended for Dutch (in particular) taste only ?

[A. G. Maisey]

My guess on age is probably around 1890-1930. This is only a guess, it is not based on any special knowledge, only on the apparent age from the photo, and on similar ones I've seen.

Yeah Rick, quality does vary enormously with these, and really nice ones are scarce, but I believe all except the very obviously recent, ie, post 1980, would date from pre-1940.

I've seen people theorise that this style of dress was produced specifically for Dutch souvenir hunters. I've never heard this in Jawa or Madura, but from European and American collectors.

They might be right. I don't know. But I do know this:- in the Sumenep area of Madura there is an immense variation in wrongko styles, things that I would categorise as folk art, and these appear to be legitimate local styles, not something that was done for the souvenir market.

I personally don't back the souvenir for the Dutch theory my feeling is that this style was just another local Madura style that was popular for a while, then dropped from favour.

[kai]

Hello Alan,

I personally don't back the souvenir for the Dutch theory my feeling is that this style was just another local Madura style that was popular for a while, then dropped from favour.

Given the wide variety of more-or-less Dutch-influenced styles in keris Madura, I believe this is very likely a genuine Maduran style. However, it obviously struck a chord with Dutch soldiers/paper-shufflers/expats given that a large majority of the surviving examples are now found in the Netherlands.

Regards,
Kai

[Gustav]

The lion wrongko normally comes with another kind of hilt. Also is workmanship on wrongko and hilt different, wrongko is better, more carefully carved and finished.

[David]

Originally Posted by Gustav

The lion wrongko normally comes with another kind of hilt. Also is workmanship on wrongko and hilt different, wrongko is better, more carefully carved and finished.

I agree that there does seem to be some difference in the carving style. The hilt is done well, but not quite as well as the wrongko. I don'tthink this means that they were not originally matched though. They seem to be similar wood with similar patina. I have seen this type of hilt matched with the lion before as well.
As for rarity, we do see this dress form somewhat often, but they are much more rare with this level of carving. I have seen maybe a half dozen or more that have this level of carving. Many more that are much more roughly hewn. Of course i don't get out to Dutch flea markets very much.

[sjors]

In the Netherlands, this wronko style is certainly not rare - I guess I see a pre-WW2 example every month or two (and that is without being able to visit local flea markets); many are of lesser quality though.

Realising we are a little bit spoiled with kerisses in the Netherlands I'am sorry to say but I couldn't agree more: this type of wrongko is very common and very easily found in the Netherlands.
Still today on almost every fleamarket you will find one or more of those "lionkerisses", most of the times "poorly" executeded souvenirs from Dutch soldiers who spend some time in "the Far East"...

(and to be honest or even blunt, in spite of their colleagues abroad, most Dutch collectors are not interested a bit in those lionkerisses because of their low quality and low value; most of the times they are sold for the amount of 40 or 50 American dollars or 30, 40 Euro's at the most...)

[kai]

Hello Alan,

I don't consider the lion wrongko form to be all that common. Yes, we've seen a few put up here over time, but prior to the internet revolution, the average western collector would have killed to get his hands on a lion wrongko. In my entire collecting life I've seen no more than half a dozen or so old lion form wrongkos. Bearing in mind the number of keris I routinely handle, half a dozen of anything is a very small number of examples.

In the Netherlands, this wronko style is certainly not rare - I guess I see a pre-WW2 example every month or two (and that is without being able to visit local flea markets); many are of lesser quality though.

Regards,
Kai