Would like to know your opinion about this carita blade

PenangsangII · 3rd November 2011, 03:03 AM

Congrats Sajen for an exquisite pandai saras of Gajah Tikor profile. Highly sought after in Malaysia. Let me know if you get tired with it....

Sajen · 3rd November 2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Congrats Sajen for an exquisite pandai saras of Gajah Tikor profile. Highly sought after in Malaysia. Let me know if you get tired with it....

Thank you Penangsang!

Please can you explain "Tikor"? "Gajah" means elephant, correct? And which sarung is correct for this blade? And, sorry, I don't think that I will get soon tired with it!

Regards,

Detlef

PenangsangII · 4th November 2011, 10:12 AM

Hi Sajen,

Gajah means elephant
Tikor means big or great

gajah tikor is a keris terminology in Pattani and Northern Peninsula describing a keris lurus with curvy profile such as yours. Gajah Tikor is to describe the matured elephant tusk like profile - big and curvy

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2011, 11:36 AM

Penangsang, can you tell us what language the word "tikor" is from?

Thanks.

David · 4th November 2011, 02:51 PM

I can find reference to Gajah Tikor in The Malay Keris by Wooley in the Glossary of Keris Terms as follows and attributed to Skeat:
Gajah Tikor (? Likor): a keris with one wave di-pangkal (Skeat)

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2011, 09:19 PM

Thank you David.

Yes, Woolley lists the term,and I take Skeat to be an unimpeachable source, but I cannot find the word "tikor" as Malay word. Further, the Woolley entry does not make sense to me for a number of reasons that I will not go into here.

The word "tikor" is found in a number of on-line dictionaries with the meaning of "east indian arrowroot plant", as well as some other irrelevant meanings.

The use of names of plants and flowers is quite common in keris terminology, and the area where this keris comes from is part of the East Indies. I suspect that the original use of the term as associated with keris had this relationship, but by Skeat's time it had acquired another meaning, by our time, another meaning again.

These are possibilities, but there is another possibility, and that is that confusion surrounds the term, so that perhaps it means different things to different people; this is not at all uncommon in matters to do with keris.

Whenever I find a term associated with keris, that I have not previously encountered, I try to find out what it means, and where it comes from.

If there is an Old Javanese association, consideration can be given to associating the keris itself to the time when that language was in use.

If the association points to Modern Javanese, or to Indonesian, or to Malay, or to some other language, that can assist with identification of origin in both time and place, and in the case of Bahasa Indonesia, with authenticity, for example, if we find an Indonesian term applied to a Javanese or Balinese keris, we need to question just how accurate that term is.

Language can act as a signpost. Sometimes the signpost might get twisted and you finish up nowhere, but it is always worth investigation.

ganjawulung · 5th November 2011, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Language can act as a signpost. Sometimes the signpost might get twisted and you finish up nowhere, but it is always worth investigation.

Yes, I fully agree with this interesting statement. But if we look to Malay keris, I found some keris term doesn't indicate as a signpost. Like, "carita" keris, in Malay term for instance. Why "carita"? Is there any meaning of "carita" in Malay term? Or it was originated from "carita" in Javanese term? And why it is a straight keris, and not wavy?
Also the form of "carita" itself, I found it different if we talk on javanese kerises for instance. There are so many "carita" variations in forms of kerises in Java. I mean, keris which bears 'dhapur' (model) of carita. If we talk on "carita" only, then we may point to certain dhapurs which has 11 luks with details of one kembang kacang, one jalen, one lambe gajah, one pejetan, one tikel alis, front sogokan and rear sogokan, with sraweyan and greneng...
And more "carita" dhapurs with 11 luks, which has different details such as carita bungkem, carita daleman, carita gandhu, carita genengan, carita keprabon (one of the most popular carita style in Java, many found in noble-man kerises in Yogyakarta), carita prasaja -- all with wavy style of 11 luks. And also "caritas" in 15 luks carita buntala, 17 luks carita kalentang....
But no form of carita kerises in Java which bears straight form. So, my eternal question is why, the Pandai Saras form of carita is a straight form of keris, with ada-ada in the middle of the blade, straight form but a bit curvy, and with "greneng" (I am sorry, not in Malay term). Would you like to explains why? Or it was, or it is just a "carita" name without any explanation?

GANJAWULUNG

3rd November 2011, 03:03 AM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Congrats Sajen for an exquisite pandai saras of Gajah Tikor profile. Highly sought after in Malaysia. Let me know if you get tired with it....

4th November 2011, 10:12 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Hi Sajen, Gajah means elephant Tikor means big or great gajah tikor is a keris terminology in Pattani and Northern Peninsula describing a keris lurus with curvy profile such as yours. Gajah Tikor is to describe the matured elephant tusk like profile - big and curvy

4th November 2011, 11:36 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Penangsang, can you tell us what language the word "tikor" is from? Thanks.

4th November 2011, 02:51 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I can find reference to Gajah Tikor in The Malay Keris by Wooley in the Glossary of Keris Terms as follows and attributed to Skeat: Gajah Tikor (? Likor): a keris with one wave di-pangkal (Skeat)

4th November 2011, 09:19 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Thank you David. Yes, Woolley lists the term,and I take Skeat to be an unimpeachable source, but I cannot find the word "tikor" as Malay word. Further, the Woolley entry does not make sense to me for a number of reasons that I will not go into here. The word "tikor" is found in a number of on-line dictionaries with the meaning of "east indian arrowroot plant", as well as some other irrelevant meanings. The use of names of plants and flowers is quite common in keris terminology, and the area where this keris comes from is part of the East Indies. I suspect that the original use of the term as associated with keris had this relationship, but by Skeat's time it had acquired another meaning, by our time, another meaning again. These are possibilities, but there is another possibility, and that is that confusion surrounds the term, so that perhaps it means different things to different people; this is not at all uncommon in matters to do with keris. Whenever I find a term associated with keris, that I have not previously encountered, I try to find out what it means, and where it comes from. If there is an Old Javanese association, consideration can be given to associating the keris itself to the time when that language was in use. If the association points to Modern Javanese, or to Indonesian, or to Malay, or to some other language, that can assist with identification of origin in both time and place, and in the case of Bahasa Indonesia, with authenticity, for example, if we find an Indonesian term applied to a Javanese or Balinese keris, we need to question just how accurate that term is. Language can act as a signpost. Sometimes the signpost might get twisted and you finish up nowhere, but it is always worth investigation.