Islamic Crossbow?

Aqtai · 2nd August 2005, 03:04 PM

I found Rex Smith's book, but there was no picture of a Mamluk with a crossbow.

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd August 2005, 04:12 PM

Although this is a bit besides the question asked by Brian, I think it may be of interest. When reading ‘The Great Moguls’ by Bamber Gascoigne. Page XVIII. ‘On December 17 (1398) the army of Mahmud Shah and Mallu Khan emerged from the gates of Delhi: ten thousand horses, forty thousand foot and a phalanx of the dreaded elephants, clanking forward in their armour and with long swords bound to their tusks. On their backs were fortified turrets bristling with archers and crossbowmen and even specialists using primitive rockets and devices for slinging hot pitch. But this straightforward Indian magnificence was no match for unorthodox cunning. By the end of the day Mahmud and Mallu had fled back into the city and straight out again the other side, and the victorious Timur was pitching his camp by a large reservoir outside the walls.’

Page 11. ‘Through the winter of 1500 Babur was secure in Samarkand, but the following spring Shaibani Khan returned to besiege him. Babur again pitched his tents on the roof of the college, from which advantage point he directed operations – and he claims even to have done effective work from there with a crossbow when a party of Uzbegs had slipped into the city and were trying to storm his headquarters – but Shaibani Khan was more interested in starving out the garrison.’

It is interesting to note, that the Indians did use crossbows rather early, although it is the first time I have seen any mention of it, the same goes for Baburs use of a crossbow in Samarkand.

Sorry Gentlemen, no photos from the place of scene – only these quotations.

B.I · 3rd August 2005, 05:31 PM

its all helpful jens.
i must admit i cant help chuckling when anyone references bamber gascoigne, but i'm afraid its a very british joke.
bamber gascoigne is legendary over here for presenting a very popular university quiz on primetime tv. no idea how long he id it, but would think maybe 20 years, over the 70's and 80's. anyone that is 30+ will know who he is and because he was so iconic, he is almost at cult status here.
what no one actually knows is that he was a writer first and his book 'the great moghuls' is a great read and maybe the best book on an overall moghul history. not in depth of course, as its a 250 page paperback, but its very easy to read and gives a great base knowledge to expand from. i still re-read mine every few years (bad memory). his passion was always moghul art and architecture (and history) and he wrote a number of article for the V&A as well. i highly recommend his book for anyone who wants knowledge without the headache of hardline academia.

Jens Nordlunde · 5th August 2005, 09:45 PM

If you take ‘The Book of the sword’ by Richard F. Burton, you can on page 19, note 6, read this. The crossbow is apparently indigenous amongst various tribes of Indo-China, but reintroduced into European warfare during the twelfth century (Yule’s Marco Polo, ii, 143).

Note 1 on page 37 also mentions a crossbow from Benin, and lastly on page 165 the crossbow is mentioned again at the bottom of the page.

The first, note 6, is interesting as it goes back to the twelfth century – if this is correct that is.
I don'r know which edition of Marco Polo Burton is refering to, be course in my copy there is no mention of a crossbow on page 143 in volume II.

2nd August 2005, 03:04 PM	#1
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	I found Rex Smith's book, but there was no picture of a Mamluk with a crossbow.

3rd August 2005, 04:12 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Although this is a bit besides the question asked by Brian, I think it may be of interest. When reading ‘The Great Moguls’ by Bamber Gascoigne. Page XVIII. ‘On December 17 (1398) the army of Mahmud Shah and Mallu Khan emerged from the gates of Delhi: ten thousand horses, forty thousand foot and a phalanx of the dreaded elephants, clanking forward in their armour and with long swords bound to their tusks. On their backs were fortified turrets bristling with archers and crossbowmen and even specialists using primitive rockets and devices for slinging hot pitch. But this straightforward Indian magnificence was no match for unorthodox cunning. By the end of the day Mahmud and Mallu had fled back into the city and straight out again the other side, and the victorious Timur was pitching his camp by a large reservoir outside the walls.’ Page 11. ‘Through the winter of 1500 Babur was secure in Samarkand, but the following spring Shaibani Khan returned to besiege him. Babur again pitched his tents on the roof of the college, from which advantage point he directed operations – and he claims even to have done effective work from there with a crossbow when a party of Uzbegs had slipped into the city and were trying to storm his headquarters – but Shaibani Khan was more interested in starving out the garrison.’ It is interesting to note, that the Indians did use crossbows rather early, although it is the first time I have seen any mention of it, the same goes for Baburs use of a crossbow in Samarkand. Sorry Gentlemen, no photos from the place of scene – only these quotations.

3rd August 2005, 05:31 PM	#3
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	its all helpful jens. i must admit i cant help chuckling when anyone references bamber gascoigne, but i'm afraid its a very british joke. bamber gascoigne is legendary over here for presenting a very popular university quiz on primetime tv. no idea how long he id it, but would think maybe 20 years, over the 70's and 80's. anyone that is 30+ will know who he is and because he was so iconic, he is almost at cult status here. what no one actually knows is that he was a writer first and his book 'the great moghuls' is a great read and maybe the best book on an overall moghul history. not in depth of course, as its a 250 page paperback, but its very easy to read and gives a great base knowledge to expand from. i still re-read mine every few years (bad memory). his passion was always moghul art and architecture (and history) and he wrote a number of article for the V&A as well. i highly recommend his book for anyone who wants knowledge without the headache of hardline academia.

5th August 2005, 09:45 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	If you take ‘The Book of the sword’ by Richard F. Burton, you can on page 19, note 6, read this. The crossbow is apparently indigenous amongst various tribes of Indo-China, but reintroduced into European warfare during the twelfth century (Yule’s Marco Polo, ii, 143). Note 1 on page 37 also mentions a crossbow from Benin, and lastly on page 165 the crossbow is mentioned again at the bottom of the page. The first, note 6, is interesting as it goes back to the twelfth century – if this is correct that is. I don'r know which edition of Marco Polo Burton is refering to, be course in my copy there is no mention of a crossbow on page 143 in volume II.