Types of Damascus Pattern

ariel · 19th October 2011, 10:45 PM

The "wootz vs. european monosteel" argument is indeed exercise in futility from the contemporary practical point of view. The only relevant point is the still-promulgated insistence of some wootz enthusiasts that wootz as such is a kind of a wonder metal. It is not. Wootz is a heterogenous definition of an alloy used to manufacture blades of widely different compositions and forging. As a result, the final outcomes were also different. Some were excellent by their contemporary criteria, some were simply good, some were substandard. Against it, european monosteel was relatively uniform thanks to the Western insistence on scientific approach and quality control. That's it.
Do I like wootz blades? Of course. Do I wish to have more of them in my collection? Sure. Would I, with my current understanding of their quality, choose a random wootz sword or a random Solingen blade if my life depended on it? Let me think :-)

Gt Obach · 20th October 2011, 03:13 PM

the world changes...

its more than just the " standardization" factor ! Wootz is not something that i could ever see being efficiently produced compared to modern standards.. its a small batch steel by nature ! It is a very clean steel with low alloy content, except for carbon being high .

- to forge it, you must use low forge temp heats therefore it almost alway has a very small grain size ( small grain size help immensely with toughness, while a large grain will be much more brittle )

forgewelding is at very high heat... if you do not take the effort to normalize the steel after... you will have a very large grained steel ... this is a potential pitfall of bloom steel !

also, i do not believe that even the smalltime wootz sword makers would not have some tests to proof a blade before it leaves the shop.. just about any bladesmith i know takes their blade to a piece of hard wood and chops away to test the edge and blade for impact strength

there'll alway be the scammers and peddlers of poor goods, and rigid standards would eliminate that forsure

still, you have to compare wootz to small production bloom steel ... in this respect it is good ( and in my opinion, i'd say better )

ofcourse Walloon, Puddling ... and so on, start down the road to industrialization and mass production ( a whole different barrel of apples )
- a game changer

talk is cheap
take your cheepest wootz sabre and sharpen it as it should be.. hang a 15inch cube of meat from a tree and slice it diagonally

I'll choose wootz

but, i'd never choose either sword for combat, I'll make the implements for war, but i'd never partake ..... remember the fate of that 15 inch cube of meat, remember how effortless it was to cleave in into two massive pieces..... that is a fate i won't ever risk

19th October 2011, 10:45 PM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The "wootz vs. european monosteel" argument is indeed exercise in futility from the contemporary practical point of view. The only relevant point is the still-promulgated insistence of some wootz enthusiasts that wootz as such is a kind of a wonder metal. It is not. Wootz is a heterogenous definition of an alloy used to manufacture blades of widely different compositions and forging. As a result, the final outcomes were also different. Some were excellent by their contemporary criteria, some were simply good, some were substandard. Against it, european monosteel was relatively uniform thanks to the Western insistence on scientific approach and quality control. That's it. Do I like wootz blades? Of course. Do I wish to have more of them in my collection? Sure. Would I, with my current understanding of their quality, choose a random wootz sword or a random Solingen blade if my life depended on it? Let me think :-)

20th October 2011, 03:13 PM	#2
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	the world changes... its more than just the " standardization" factor ! Wootz is not something that i could ever see being efficiently produced compared to modern standards.. its a small batch steel by nature ! It is a very clean steel with low alloy content, except for carbon being high . - to forge it, you must use low forge temp heats therefore it almost alway has a very small grain size ( small grain size help immensely with toughness, while a large grain will be much more brittle ) forgewelding is at very high heat... if you do not take the effort to normalize the steel after... you will have a very large grained steel ... this is a potential pitfall of bloom steel ! also, i do not believe that even the smalltime wootz sword makers would not have some tests to proof a blade before it leaves the shop.. just about any bladesmith i know takes their blade to a piece of hard wood and chops away to test the edge and blade for impact strength there'll alway be the scammers and peddlers of poor goods, and rigid standards would eliminate that forsure still, you have to compare wootz to small production bloom steel ... in this respect it is good ( and in my opinion, i'd say better ) ofcourse Walloon, Puddling ... and so on, start down the road to industrialization and mass production ( a whole different barrel of apples ) - a game changer talk is cheap take your cheepest wootz sabre and sharpen it as it should be.. hang a 15inch cube of meat from a tree and slice it diagonally I'll choose wootz but, i'd never choose either sword for combat, I'll make the implements for war, but i'd never partake ..... remember the fate of that 15 inch cube of meat, remember how effortless it was to cleave in into two massive pieces..... that is a fate i won't ever risk