Bali keris

henri · 13th October 2011, 05:01 AM

Dear members ,
I just found this keris in Bali during a short trip with an " interesting " blade .
Very difficult even with the blade in hand to know if it is upgraded or original piece .
New hilt , nice aged Bali dress and etching very soon ....

Any opinion/comment regarding dapur and age will be much appreciated.

Thank you for your efforts !

Regards,
Henri

ganjawulung · 13th October 2011, 05:51 PM

The relief at the keris gandhik, could be Airlangga (991 in Bali, and 1049 in Java). He was the only raja (king) of the Kingdom of Kahuripan, which was built out of the rubble of the Kingdom of Medang after the Srivijaya invasion. Picture of a relief below is the deified statue of King Airlangga depicted as Vishnu mounting Garuda, found in Candi (Temple) Belahan, collection of Trowulan Museum, East Java, Indonesia.

GANJAWULUNG

ganjawulung · 13th October 2011, 05:55 PM

But I don't suppose the keris was from the same era of making... But anyhow, it is an interesting keris motif...

henri · 14th October 2011, 09:13 AM

Thank you Ganjawulung for your input .

Cheers

Henri

Rick · 14th October 2011, 03:36 PM

I wonder if this blade had been 'revised' at some point later in its life .

David · 14th October 2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I wonder if this blade had been 'revised' at some point later in its life .

That's my feeling as well Rick...

Rick · 14th October 2011, 05:14 PM

I'm seeing lots of (forging ?) flaws on one side of the blade ...... or are they from rust ??

The piece does not look overly topographic as old Jawa keris often do from repeated washing and re-stain .

Puzzling .

David · 14th October 2011, 07:26 PM

Well, i think it's needs a good cleaning and stain to really be able to properly assess the blade. Dirt and rust can easily hide revisions to blade profile.
As for not having a topographic surface, it is present in Bali dress. I'm not convinced that the blade's origins are Bali, but if it has been kept as a Bali keris over the years it would probably have received the Balinese approach of keeping the blade polished smooth.

Rick · 15th October 2011, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Well, i think it's needs a good cleaning and stain to really be able to properly assess the blade. Dirt and rust can easily hide revisions to blade profile.
As for not having a topographic surface, it is present in Bali dress. I'm not convinced that the blade's origins are Bali, but if it has been kept as a Bali keris over the years it would probably have received the Balinese approach of keeping the blade polished smooth.

Yes, it has not seen a lot of washing and was finished smooth; but why do we see such large cold shuts/forging flaws in a blade that appears so nicely carved at the sorsoran ?

Sajen · 15th October 2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Yes, it has not seen a lot of washing and was finished smooth; but why do we see such large cold shuts/forging flaws in a blade that appears so nicely carved at the sorsoran ?

I have my doubts as well, the forging flaws let me think that the gandhik is a later addition.

Jean · 15th October 2011, 11:19 AM

What would Alan say about this blade? I am puzzled also, the carved motif is quite impressive and from the pictures I don't see clearly any sign of welding and the metal colour looks the same as the blade? The shape of the ganja does not look Javanese?

A. G. Maisey · 15th October 2011, 11:34 AM

Jean, Alan would prefer not to comment.

Everything you need to know is sitting right there in front of you, just look carefully and think.

drdavid · 15th October 2011, 01:11 PM

Hi all
to my eye there is a clear differential line in the metal around the figural elements suggesting a piece has been welded in. The line I have drawn surrounds the area I would regard as suspect but is not actually on what I would think is the weld line. Also the metal close to the gonjo shows what appears to be some 'blistering'. The discoloring around the figural elements also suggests heating to me. I wonder if the splits/delamination are also because a piece has been welded in and the surrounding metal stressed but I have no understanding of metalwork so this is pure speculation.
drdavid

Sajen · 15th October 2011, 01:45 PM

Another thing to think about: Why should have a blade with gilded gandhik area forging flaws? No serious empu or pande will finish such a blade!!

13th October 2011, 05:01 AM	#1
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Bali keris Dear members , I just found this keris in Bali during a short trip with an " interesting " blade . Very difficult even with the blade in hand to know if it is upgraded or original piece . New hilt , nice aged Bali dress and etching very soon .... Any opinion/comment regarding dapur and age will be much appreciated. Thank you for your efforts ! Regards, Henri Attached Images

13th October 2011, 05:51 PM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	The relief at the keris gandhik, could be Airlangga (991 in Bali, and 1049 in Java). He was the only raja (king) of the Kingdom of Kahuripan, which was built out of the rubble of the Kingdom of Medang after the Srivijaya invasion. Picture of a relief below is the deified statue of King Airlangga depicted as Vishnu mounting Garuda, found in Candi (Temple) Belahan, collection of Trowulan Museum, East Java, Indonesia. GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

15th October 2011, 01:11 PM	#13
drdavid Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 371	Hi all to my eye there is a clear differential line in the metal around the figural elements suggesting a piece has been welded in. The line I have drawn surrounds the area I would regard as suspect but is not actually on what I would think is the weld line. Also the metal close to the gonjo shows what appears to be some 'blistering'. The discoloring around the figural elements also suggests heating to me. I wonder if the splits/delamination are also because a piece has been welded in and the surrounding metal stressed but I have no understanding of metalwork so this is pure speculation. drdavid Attached Images

13th October 2011, 05:55 PM	#3
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	But I don't suppose the keris was from the same era of making... But anyhow, it is an interesting keris motif...

14th October 2011, 09:13 AM	#4
henri Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 81	Thank you Ganjawulung for your input . Cheers Henri

14th October 2011, 03:36 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I wonder if this blade had been 'revised' at some point later in its life .

14th October 2011, 05:14 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	I'm seeing lots of (forging ?) flaws on one side of the blade ...... or are they from rust ?? The piece does not look overly topographic as old Jawa keris often do from repeated washing and re-stain . Puzzling .

14th October 2011, 07:26 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,127	Well, i think it's needs a good cleaning and stain to really be able to properly assess the blade. Dirt and rust can easily hide revisions to blade profile. As for not having a topographic surface, it is present in Bali dress. I'm not convinced that the blade's origins are Bali, but if it has been kept as a Bali keris over the years it would probably have received the Balinese approach of keeping the blade polished smooth.

15th October 2011, 11:19 AM	#11
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	What would Alan say about this blade? I am puzzled also, the carved motif is quite impressive and from the pictures I don't see clearly any sign of welding and the metal colour looks the same as the blade? The shape of the ganja does not look Javanese?

15th October 2011, 11:34 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,896	Jean, Alan would prefer not to comment. Everything you need to know is sitting right there in front of you, just look carefully and think.

15th October 2011, 01:45 PM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,786	Another thing to think about: Why should have a blade with gilded gandhik area forging flaws? No serious empu or pande will finish such a blade!!