Another Unique Malay Sundang

Battara · 22nd September 2011, 11:28 PM

Hate to say but the chasing work on the hilt is common okir style to the region. Maybe a Chinese silversmith made it, maybe not.

Gustav · 23rd September 2011, 07:52 AM

Jose, I don't have the smallest part of your knowledge about okir ornamentics, yet if it more likely is a Peninsular work, I doubt we can call it okir.

The flowers on it, - this is the point of question - they look close to way peonies are depicted (comparing to other examples of design with this flower from Peninsula and Sumatra in silverwork and woodcarving), and peonies are not traditional Malay or Sumtran in design. As I understand, they are mark of strong chinese influence.

Sajen · 23rd September 2011, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Jose, I don't have the smallest part of your knowledge about okir ornamentics, yet if it more likely is a Peninsular work, I doubt we can call it okir.

The flowers on it, - this is the point of question - they look close to way peonies are depicted (comparing to other examples of design with this flower from Peninsula and Sumatra in silverwork and woodcarving), and peonies are not traditional Malay or Sumtran in design. As I understand, they are mark of strong chinese influence.

Hello Gustav,

this is what I have read and learned as well, the peonie flower is a chinese motif so far I know.
Look for example this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13374

Regards,

Detlef

Battara · 23rd September 2011, 08:27 PM

So what you both are saying is that anytime we see this particular flower motif it is of Chinese origin................interesting................

Gustav · 23rd September 2011, 08:51 PM

As I said, it is the question if peonie is peonie is peonie, yet otherwise when we see it on Peninsula or Sumatra, this surely is chinese influenced and most probably chinese work.

Sajen · 23rd September 2011, 10:00 PM

Hi Jose,

yes, agree with Gustav.

Regards,

Detlef

DAHenkel · 26th September 2011, 02:54 PM

While this is clearly Malay I have a feeling it is not Peninsular but could be Riau or Bornean Malay. I have some pictures floating around somewhere but I can't find any of them at the moment. Will dig a bit deeper when I have time...

23rd September 2011, 08:51 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	As I said, it is the question if peonie is peonie is peonie, yet otherwise when we see it on Peninsula or Sumatra, this surely is chinese influenced and most probably chinese work. Last edited by Gustav; 23rd September 2011 at 09:03 PM.

22nd September 2011, 11:28 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Hate to say but the chasing work on the hilt is common okir style to the region. Maybe a Chinese silversmith made it, maybe not.

23rd September 2011, 07:52 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Jose, I don't have the smallest part of your knowledge about okir ornamentics, yet if it more likely is a Peninsular work, I doubt we can call it okir. The flowers on it, - this is the point of question - they look close to way peonies are depicted (comparing to other examples of design with this flower from Peninsula and Sumatra in silverwork and woodcarving), and peonies are not traditional Malay or Sumtran in design. As I understand, they are mark of strong chinese influence.

23rd September 2011, 08:27 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	So what you both are saying is that anytime we see this particular flower motif it is of Chinese origin................interesting................

23rd September 2011, 10:00 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,213	Hi Jose, yes, agree with Gustav. Regards, Detlef

26th September 2011, 02:54 PM	#7
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	While this is clearly Malay I have a feeling it is not Peninsular but could be Riau or Bornean Malay. I have some pictures floating around somewhere but I can't find any of them at the moment. Will dig a bit deeper when I have time...