A possible Schiavona ancestor

[kai]

Hello Fernando,

I'm with Iain here - at least wait for a while before deciding on any work.

Unless you contemplate to bring the whole blade to new polish and accept to reprofile the blade for a considerable part of its length (and then the hilt will most likely look off and possibly the blade crack worse), any local changes to the tip will probably make it look fake rather than better, I guess...

Regards,
Kai

[fernando]

Thanks a lot, Iain and Kai, for the wise words.
I am particulary glad that you like this sword, Iain.
Yes, i am going to give it some time, expecting this initial hysteria to vanish and the tip detail stops jumping into my eyes.
I hope she feels fine close to her hosts.

.

[cornelistromp]

Hi Fernando,

beautiful and rare sword, even with a broken point, congratulations!
it is not necessarily of Italian (Venetian?) origin.
you can see the hilt bar design similarities with the German basket hilted riding swords around mid 16thC , H and J.(Oakeshott attachment)
I personally would place the sword in the German direction and around 1540.

If you have an authentic blade point, you could consider a "justifiable" restoration.

I myself am a supporter to leave authentic weapons as much as possible untouched.

a fracture in the hilt , a grip, a broken blade can be restored, in all cases patina must remain untouched.

best,

[fernando]

Ah Jasper, i was missing your knowledgeable and keen observations; i thank you so much for those and for the enlightening hilt illustrations.

Worthy of note is how your remarks do not significantly differ from those transmitted by Jim when i seeked his advice prior to this sword acquisition:

(QUOTE) Actually this would be considered a mid-European basket hilt sword with hilt of the form which evolved into the familiar schiavona type.
... but most prominantly this example seems mid European, probably German and may well be of the period specified (second half XVI century) if not slightly later. (END QUOTE).

Thanks again for your input, which i will register and save.

[Matchlock]

I, too, wish to express my opinion that the tip of the blade should be kept unaltered, and I agree with other members on preserving the good old patina.

Compliments on your nice display, 'Nando!

Best,
Michael

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Compliments on your nice display, 'Nando! ...

Tank you Michl,

[Iain]

I will second (or third) the comments about your display Fernando. It's always a true pleasure to see an old warrior in good company. A good display of swords in the same family gives invaluable visual information - size, characteristics (heavy, light, longer, shorter) suddenly all become clear.

Thanks for sharing!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Iain

I will second (or third) the comments about your display Fernando. It's always a true pleasure to see an old warrior in good company. A good display of swords in the same family gives invaluable visual information - size, characteristics (heavy, light, longer, shorter) suddenly all become clear.

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks much for your impressions Iain.
Better than receiving such compliments is to know that you guys are pleased.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Ah Jasper, i was missing your knowledgeable and keen observations; i thank you so much for those and for the enlightening hilt illustrations.

Worthy of note is how your remarks do not significantly differ from those transmitted by Jim when i seeked his advice prior to this sword acquisition:

(QUOTE) Actually this would be considered a mid-European basket hilt sword with hilt of the form which evolved into the familiar schiavona type.
... but most prominantly this example seems mid European, probably German and may well be of the period specified (second half XVI century) if not slightly later. (END QUOTE).

Thanks again for your input, which i will register and save.

Thank you so much Nando!!!

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Fernando,

I personally would place the sword in the German direction and around 1540.

Hi Jasper,

Sorry but I have to differ from your dating.
If you take a close look at the hilts you will notice that Fernando's is quite different and much more developed, ca. 1630's, than the one on Oakeshott's drawing which indeed would be ca. 1550-60.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Hi 'Nando,

Would you be willing to post details of your longest rapier illustrated 2nd from bottom on your display?

It seems highly interesting indeed and I would sure let you know more about it! The blade should be of elliptic main section, with a reinforced tip ...

Best,
Michl

[fernando]

Hi Michl,
The blade is more diamond section (four faced) than elliptical and the tip is not reinforced.
We have discussed it HERE , remember?

[Matchlock]

Grrr, my old brain ...
Anyway, Ottmar didn't it read but he will now.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Jasper,

Sorry but I have to differ from your dating.
If you take a close look at the hilts you will notice that Fernando's is quite different and much more developed, ca. 1630's, than the one on Oakeshott's drawing which indeed would be ca. 1550-60.

Best,
Michael

Hi Michael,

sorry for my late response. I saw this post only now.
Oakeshott's sketches are only the front view without a counter guard, apart from that the basket disappeared at the end of the 16th century in Germany for this type of swords.( this type of basket)
I'm sorry but I must hold my date.

kind regards
Jasper

[fernando]

Thank for your new input, Jasper.
Now, sorry for my ignorance but, you would you say this is a cavalry sword or an infantry one ... or rather for civilian use?

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by fernando

Thank for your new input, Jasper.
Now, sorry for my ignorance but, you would you say this is a cavalry sword or an infantry one ... or rather for civilian use?

Hi Fernando,
This sword given it's blade length and combined with the full hand protection of a deep basket hilt is a very efficient sword that allowed both cut and thrust and therefor perfect for the heavy cavalry.

[fernando]

Thanks a lot Jasper .