Wheellock Mechanism

rickystl · 18th August 2011, 05:04 PM

Gentlemen: Thank you ALL for your input. The only one wrong using the word COCK is me.

My error.
Michael: Thanks for posting the great pictures. I look at them as I wipe the drewel from my mouth

Yes, with the missing parts I'm going to try to negotiate the price. But, the current owner basically knows what he has, so it might be tough. We'll see.

I'll keep you posted if I decide to take the plunge. Thanks, Rick.

Matchlock · 18th August 2011, 06:12 PM

Hi there,

I sure didn't mean to cause any iconvenience on either side

, just intended to make sure that we use the correct terminology.

Best,
Michael

rickystl · 18th August 2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi there,

I sure didn't mean to cause any iconvenience on either side

, just intended to make sure that we use the correct terminology.

Best,
Michael

Agreed!! Rick.

Matchlock · 22nd August 2011, 06:34 PM

Hi Rick,

I just found this sample very smilar to the one we've been discussing, in complete condition but the surface ruined by heavy cleaning.

Best,
Michael

fernando · 22nd August 2011, 07:12 PM

This is an example mounted on a military arquebus, kept in the collection of the Portuguese Royal Palace of Vila Viçosa.
It is of German origin, date XVII century. Te walnut stock with brass and mother of pearl insets. The lock plate is marked with a heart crossed by an arrow, unver the initial H S; a German gunsmith that worked between 1640-1660.
The pictures have a different aspect because i took them from two different publications.

.

Matchlock · 22nd August 2011, 07:29 PM

Hi 'Nando,

Thank you so much for posting this fine sample hitherto unknown to me!

The big bore brass barrel seems to indicate that this actually is a grenade thrower, in any case it is not a usual musket but intended for special use. This theory is backed up by the fact that there is no provision for a ramrod.

Please note that the trigger guard is mounted the wrong way round.

I have to differ from what the publication says: this gun is characteristically Italian in every respect, including the form of the buttstock, its iron wire decoration and the two broad straps. Also, the lock maker's mark cannot be German, ca. 1640-60, because this kind of lock in the present shape was usually not made after ca. 1610. The lock on this gun is typical of the 1580s-90s, and this is the correct date for the whole piece.

Best,
Michl

fernando · 22nd August 2011, 08:00 PM

Dear Michl,
You surely know that i don't hesitate to credit your observations rather than the museum labels, which we know are so often far from correct.
One thing only; it certainly is an arquebus or, if you prefer, is not a grenade thrower sort of thing, as the bronze straight barrel is rather thick but has a narrow caliber, thjat of 25 mm.
The rest details are:
barrel length 630 mm.
full length 1060 mm.
weight 6400 grs.
rest length 925 mm.
rest weigth 650 grs.

22nd August 2011, 06:34 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, I just found this sample very smilar to the one we've been discussing, in complete condition but the surface ruined by heavy cleaning. Best, Michael Attached Images

22nd August 2011, 07:12 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	This is an example mounted on a military arquebus, kept in the collection of the Portuguese Royal Palace of Vila Viçosa. It is of German origin, date XVII century. Te walnut stock with brass and mother of pearl insets. The lock plate is marked with a heart crossed by an arrow, unver the initial H S; a German gunsmith that worked between 1640-1660. The pictures have a different aspect because i took them from two different publications. . Attached Images

22nd August 2011, 07:29 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, Thank you so much for posting this fine sample hitherto unknown to me! The big bore brass barrel seems to indicate that this actually is a grenade thrower, in any case it is not a usual musket but intended for special use. This theory is backed up by the fact that there is no provision for a ramrod. Please note that the trigger guard is mounted the wrong way round. I have to differ from what the publication says: this gun is characteristically Italian in every respect, including the form of the buttstock, its iron wire decoration and the two broad straps. Also, the lock maker's mark cannot be German, ca. 1640-60, because this kind of lock in the present shape was usually not made after ca. 1610. The lock on this gun is typical of the 1580s-90s, and this is the correct date for the whole piece. Best, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 22nd August 2011 at 09:22 PM.

18th August 2011, 05:04 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Gentlemen: Thank you ALL for your input. The only one wrong using the word COCK is me. My error. Michael: Thanks for posting the great pictures. I look at them as I wipe the drewel from my mouth Yes, with the missing parts I'm going to try to negotiate the price. But, the current owner basically knows what he has, so it might be tough. We'll see. I'll keep you posted if I decide to take the plunge. Thanks, Rick.

18th August 2011, 06:12 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi there, I sure didn't mean to cause any iconvenience on either side , just intended to make sure that we use the correct terminology. Best, Michael

22nd August 2011, 08:00 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Dear Michl, You surely know that i don't hesitate to credit your observations rather than the museum labels, which we know are so often far from correct. One thing only; it certainly is an arquebus or, if you prefer, is not a grenade thrower sort of thing, as the bronze straight barrel is rather thick but has a narrow caliber, thjat of 25 mm. The rest details are: barrel length 630 mm. full length 1060 mm. weight 6400 grs. rest length 925 mm. rest weigth 650 grs.