Kris from Yogyakarta

asomotif · 1st August 2011, 09:54 PM

Lovely keris. Lovely pamor.

I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ?

Best regards,
Willem

Gustav · 1st August 2011, 10:18 PM

This motiv is called menyan kobar (burning incense), according to Solyom. It probably has protective meaning.

On batik there is a similar motiv, called nganam gedeg.

This motiv of imitated plaitwork is very old, you can see it also on old ceramics from archipelago.

asomotif · 1st August 2011, 10:28 PM

Thank you Gustav !

GIO · 2nd August 2011, 01:34 AM

Willem and Gustav, many thanks for the additional info.
Re the monogram on the reverse of the pendok, it means "Allah", but probably you already knew that.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2011, 02:24 AM

"Allah" ?

Really?

It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

GIO · 2nd August 2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

"Allah" ?

Really?

It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

I do not know arabic, but I had it translated by two persons, and one was a mother-tongue teacher.
This said, I am ready to take into account other interpretations.
Is there anybody who can contribute ?

Jean · 2nd August 2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

I do not know arabic, but I had it translated by two persons, and one was a mother-tongue teacher.
This said, I am ready to take into account other interpretations.
Is there anybody who can contribute ?

Hello Gio,
I confirm that this is the blazon of the Sultan from Yogya, see attached picture taken at the entrance of the palace (sorry for the pic quality). Nothing to do with arabic script I think.
Best regards
Jean

Jean · 2nd August 2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asomotif

Lovely keris. Lovely pamor.

I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ?

Best regards,
Willem

Hello Willem,
Yogya pendok fitted on a Solonese warangka or just a manufacturer stamp?
Best regards
Jean

asomotif · 2nd August 2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hello Willem,
Yogya pendok fitted on a Solonese warangka or just a manufacturer stamp?
Best regards
Jean

Good question.
The pendok fits like a glove and seems original to the scabbard.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd August 2011, 12:30 AM

GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:-

Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah.

One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

PenangsangII · 3rd August 2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:-

Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah.

One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

Yes, those are Javanese aksara.

GIO · 3rd August 2011, 10:19 AM

Jean, you convinced me.
I think I have understood the reason of the confusion created by the interpretation of the monogram.
If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence. If you show it to a person who knows Arabic only, he will be oriented to read what the monogram looks like to him. To have a more clear idea please look at the writing of the 99 names of Allah in Wikipedia.

Jean · 3rd August 2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence.

Hello Gio,
If you look at the coat of arms upside down, the writing looks a little bit like Allah indeed but an arabic language teacher should not confuse it.

Best regards
Jean

Marcokeris · 3rd August 2011, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

Jean, you convinced me.
I think I have understood the reason of the confusion created by the interpretation of the monogram.
If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence. If you show it to a person who knows Arabic only, he will be oriented to read what the monogram looks like to him. To have a more clear idea please look at the writing of the 99 names of Allah in Wikipedia.

Hallo Gio
About the name look this post:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=3831

1st August 2011, 09:54 PM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Lovely keris. Lovely pamor. I also like the pendok with the linear design. I have a similar one on one of my keris. Is there a name for this specific pendok motif ? Best regards, Willem Attached Images

1st August 2011, 10:18 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	This motiv is called menyan kobar (burning incense), according to Solyom. It probably has protective meaning. On batik there is a similar motiv, called nganam gedeg. This motiv of imitated plaitwork is very old, you can see it also on old ceramics from archipelago. Last edited by Gustav; 1st August 2011 at 10:41 PM.

1st August 2011, 10:28 PM	#3
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Thank you Gustav !

2nd August 2011, 01:34 AM	#4
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 329	Willem and Gustav, many thanks for the additional info. Re the monogram on the reverse of the pendok, it means "Allah", but probably you already knew that.

2nd August 2011, 02:24 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	"Allah" ? Really? It looks like the lambang of the Karaton Ngayogyakrta Hadiningrat to me.

3rd August 2011, 12:30 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	GIO, I cannot read hanacaraka (Javanese script), and the letters within the coat of arms of the Karaton Ngayogyakarta are somewhat stylised, but even so, I think that we will find that these leters are "Hb", standing for "Hamengkubuwana", the common abbreviation for the title of the Sultan of Jogja:- Sampeyan Dalem Ingkang Sinuwun Kanjeng Hamengku Buwono Senapati ing Ngalaga , Abdurrahman Sayidin Panatagama Kalifatullah. One thing is absolutely certain:- these letters are not any form of Arabic script, they are Javanese script, and they do not read as "Allah".

3rd August 2011, 10:19 AM	#12
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 329	Jean, you convinced me. I think I have understood the reason of the confusion created by the interpretation of the monogram. If you examine the writing of Allah in islamic, you will certainly notice that the monogram on the pendok is very similar, but the letters are written in the correct sequence and in reverse sequence. If you show it to a person who knows Arabic only, he will be oriented to read what the monogram looks like to him. To have a more clear idea please look at the writing of the 99 names of Allah in Wikipedia.