Plastic, Bakerlite and Arabian Arms

Rick · 29th July 2011, 05:14 PM

Bakelite is indeed a hundred year old form of plastic.
I would imagine it took a few years to move East .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite

I would think it might have seen use in the East by 1910 or so .

A.alnakkas · 29th July 2011, 06:32 PM

Thanks all for the input!

Rick, The date you set is logical considering that swords were still used well into the mid of the 20th century.

Alex, I dont think you understand what am aiming at; I mainly want to know the time in which plastic was used for rehilting and picture examples. About the swords and weither the plastic was ment to be there, well from a collector point of view, it is not ment to be there. But if you are a bedouin, am sure you wouldnt mind plastic! keep in mind that plastic probably have some better qualities compared to traditional materials. By qualities ofc I mean: cheaper, good endurance, easy to use (and more I think)

As for the swords with plastic hilts that I've seen, I atleast saw a solingen sword, a persian sword and atleast 2 with european blades that sport plastic hilts. Other parts such as the cross guard are older then the hilt slabs and so are the pommel caps! I really regret not taking photos

Ibrahim, Thanks alot for the input! I know what you mean about the heat! a few days ago it was 50+ here and I felt my skin crunch under the sun. Btw I would love to visit your workshop some time soon. I have items that needs belts and restoration.

Regards,

Abdullatif

Gavin Nugent · 27th August 2020, 01:58 AM

As an FYI on the subject of plastics in these circles, I have in my possession a Terrs buckler made in some sort of polymer.

It is a very faithful rendition, being of exact tolerances and proportions.

Where it has been noted patina lacks with these materials, this example shows very nice age wear and patina.... it is an interesting anomaly.

Gavin

Rick · 27th August 2020, 04:13 AM

I'd suspect it might be Bakelite then Gavin, it is after all a polymer and as one that was introduced almost a century ago it would have by now accumulated a nice patina. I would guess your buckler was probably more for show than combat use.

Bakelite, also Aluminium was probably a big deal when first introduced and considered as quite special back then. Napoleon III had a dinner service made from this new miraculous metal.

Gavin Nugent · 27th August 2020, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'd suspect it might be Bakelite then Gavin, it is after all a polymer and as one that was introduced almost a century ago it would have by now accumulated a nice patina. I would guess your buckler was probably more for show than combat use.

Bakelite, also Aluminium was probably a big deal when first introduced and considered as quite special back then. Napoleon III had a dinner service made from this new miraculous metal.

It may well be a dress related item Rick

There is a small paragraph within this Wiki page that may turn up better data if the few references cited are investigated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatura...20the%20market.

Gavin

Rick · 27th August 2020, 07:42 PM

Interesting Gavin. I might have a bead of Faturan in my miscellaneous treasures drawer. It's large 2" long X 1" thick and has a clear cherry amber color and is at least 100 years old and shows signs that it was turned on some sort of lathe to achieve its tapered lozenge shape.

David R · 29th August 2020, 12:33 AM

Re "synthetics", German WW1 sabres had Bakelite grips, (shortages forced them back to using Walnut wood) I have an Afghan Kukri with a Gutta Percha hilt, and Belgian pinfire pistols of the 19th C often had grips made from compressed blood and sawdust. Casein dates from the 1830s, and Amberoid goes back to the Bronze Age. Celluloid is another 19th C product, and appears as fake Rayskin on WW2 Shin Gunto..... You have to look at stuff on a case by case basis. Sometimes the synthetic (not plastic) outperformed and had a higher status than the natural material.

sfenoid13 · 29th August 2020, 02:04 AM

if you an find 32 others like this one in your drawer you will have a very expensive TASBIH (prayer beads) in your hands

The 33 count tasbih goes for about $1000 in Turkey, if old and authentic..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Interesting Gavin. I might have a bead of Faturan in my miscellaneous treasures drawer. It's large 2" long X 1" thick and has a clear cherry amber color and is at least 100 years old and shows signs that it was turned on some sort of lathe to achieve its tapered lozenge shape.

27th August 2020, 07:42 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Faturan Interesting Gavin. I might have a bead of Faturan in my miscellaneous treasures drawer. It's large 2" long X 1" thick and has a clear cherry amber color and is at least 100 years old and shows signs that it was turned on some sort of lathe to achieve its tapered lozenge shape. Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 27th August 2020 at 11:38 PM. Reason: added picture

29th July 2011, 05:14 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Bakelite is indeed a hundred year old form of plastic. I would imagine it took a few years to move East . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite I would think it might have seen use in the East by 1910 or so .

29th July 2011, 06:32 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Thanks all for the input! Rick, The date you set is logical considering that swords were still used well into the mid of the 20th century. Alex, I dont think you understand what am aiming at; I mainly want to know the time in which plastic was used for rehilting and picture examples. About the swords and weither the plastic was ment to be there, well from a collector point of view, it is not ment to be there. But if you are a bedouin, am sure you wouldnt mind plastic! keep in mind that plastic probably have some better qualities compared to traditional materials. By qualities ofc I mean: cheaper, good endurance, easy to use (and more I think) As for the swords with plastic hilts that I've seen, I atleast saw a solingen sword, a persian sword and atleast 2 with european blades that sport plastic hilts. Other parts such as the cross guard are older then the hilt slabs and so are the pommel caps! I really regret not taking photos Ibrahim, Thanks alot for the input! I know what you mean about the heat! a few days ago it was 50+ here and I felt my skin crunch under the sun. Btw I would love to visit your workshop some time soon. I have items that needs belts and restoration. Regards, Abdullatif

27th August 2020, 01:58 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	As an FYI on the subject of plastics in these circles, I have in my possession a Terrs buckler made in some sort of polymer. It is a very faithful rendition, being of exact tolerances and proportions. Where it has been noted patina lacks with these materials, this example shows very nice age wear and patina.... it is an interesting anomaly. Gavin

27th August 2020, 04:13 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I'd suspect it might be Bakelite then Gavin, it is after all a polymer and as one that was introduced almost a century ago it would have by now accumulated a nice patina. I would guess your buckler was probably more for show than combat use. Bakelite, also Aluminium was probably a big deal when first introduced and considered as quite special back then. Napoleon III had a dinner service made from this new miraculous metal.

29th August 2020, 12:33 AM	#7
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,114	Re "synthetics", German WW1 sabres had Bakelite grips, (shortages forced them back to using Walnut wood) I have an Afghan Kukri with a Gutta Percha hilt, and Belgian pinfire pistols of the 19th C often had grips made from compressed blood and sawdust. Casein dates from the 1830s, and Amberoid goes back to the Bronze Age. Celluloid is another 19th C product, and appears as fake Rayskin on WW2 Shin Gunto..... You have to look at stuff on a case by case basis. Sometimes the synthetic (not plastic) outperformed and had a higher status than the natural material.