Plastic, Bakerlite and Arabian Arms

[A.alnakkas]

Hello Alex,

I think they are what you say. But the examples I've seen are really old! I think one of the shamshirs has a wootz blade.

Am not talking about the modern reproduction coming out of yemen/ksa and oman.. am talking about swords made to be used and are rehilted over and over.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hello Alex,

I think they are what you say. But the examples I've seen are really old! I think one of the shamshirs has a wootz blade.

Am not talking about the modern reproduction coming out of yemen/ksa and oman.. am talking about swords made to be used and are rehilted over and over.

Salaams, Kind regards in hot weather !! We are having 50 degrees just now.
Interesting about the plastic stuff in the market over the last 20 years or so.. Personally I dont mind as it takes the strain off rare species to some extent I suppose. There are several types of plastic . The first composite is a yellow colour and on Khanjars it makes a reasonable useable and heavy hilt. The second is a dark brown almost black colour which is quite attractive and dense so that it can accept the myriad of small silver pins in the same way horn does. Often that one is called "carbon". They are both plastic of a sort but no seller with half a brain would promote a plastic handle as genuine horn. The other plastic job is white and is the Ivory variant copy. It is very attractive and practical and takes all the adornment like a real one. Again no one should be duped by a plastic handle since they have virtually no patina cracks or wear as in the original and who ?... which tourist is in the market for a real rare species hilt?... not a lot I suspect. Those that know even a little about real horn handles will never be fooled by a composite hilt. We are experimenting with various less expensive, allowable, horn equivalents and have some excellent results. I have one in the workshop now and will publish to Forum on completion. (There is another cheaper variant in the form of a ceramic handle but we gave up on that as it shatters when dropped ! )
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.
p.s. I know of no plastics on Omani Swords.

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hello Alex,

I think they are what you say. But the examples I've seen are really old! I think one of the shamshirs has a wootz blade.

Am not talking about the modern reproduction coming out of yemen/ksa and oman.. am talking about swords made to be used and are rehilted over and over.

If we're talking about (chemically produced) plastic, it cannot be older than 100 y.o. If there are any plastic parts on old wootz shamshir I doubt it is authentic and meant to be there.
by the way, some new plastic handle copies will full most collectors, they do have age cracks and coloration of real horn or ivory, and good rezin copies are almost impossible to tell without the needle/burn test.

[Rick]

Bakelite is indeed a hundred year old form of plastic.
I would imagine it took a few years to move East .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite

I would think it might have seen use in the East by 1910 or so .

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks all for the input!

Rick, The date you set is logical considering that swords were still used well into the mid of the 20th century.

Alex, I dont think you understand what am aiming at; I mainly want to know the time in which plastic was used for rehilting and picture examples. About the swords and weither the plastic was ment to be there, well from a collector point of view, it is not ment to be there. But if you are a bedouin, am sure you wouldnt mind plastic! keep in mind that plastic probably have some better qualities compared to traditional materials. By qualities ofc I mean: cheaper, good endurance, easy to use (and more I think)

As for the swords with plastic hilts that I've seen, I atleast saw a solingen sword, a persian sword and atleast 2 with european blades that sport plastic hilts. Other parts such as the cross guard are older then the hilt slabs and so are the pommel caps! I really regret not taking photos

Ibrahim, Thanks alot for the input! I know what you mean about the heat! a few days ago it was 50+ here and I felt my skin crunch under the sun. Btw I would love to visit your workshop some time soon. I have items that needs belts and restoration.

Regards,

Abdullatif

[Gavin Nugent]

As an FYI on the subject of plastics in these circles, I have in my possession a Terrs buckler made in some sort of polymer.

It is a very faithful rendition, being of exact tolerances and proportions.

Where it has been noted patina lacks with these materials, this example shows very nice age wear and patina.... it is an interesting anomaly.

Gavin

[Rick]

I'd suspect it might be Bakelite then Gavin, it is after all a polymer and as one that was introduced almost a century ago it would have by now accumulated a nice patina. I would guess your buckler was probably more for show than combat use.

Bakelite, also Aluminium was probably a big deal when first introduced and considered as quite special back then. Napoleon III had a dinner service made from this new miraculous metal.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Rick

I'd suspect it might be Bakelite then Gavin, it is after all a polymer and as one that was introduced almost a century ago it would have by now accumulated a nice patina. I would guess your buckler was probably more for show than combat use.

Bakelite, also Aluminium was probably a big deal when first introduced and considered as quite special back then. Napoleon III had a dinner service made from this new miraculous metal.

It may well be a dress related item Rick

There is a small paragraph within this Wiki page that may turn up better data if the few references cited are investigated

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatura...20the%20market.

Gavin