mysterious marking on kaskara

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Mark,
It is always great to see these older threads posted with new information and examples! Thank you, and welcome, glad you're with us.
Kaskaras are one of the most fascinating edged weapons as they are often revealing in our understanding of the history of these Sudanese regions and culture, and actually are pretty much even a present day weapon in degree.

Yours is modern in the mounts, but the blade seems older of course. These swords were heirlooms in many cases, and typically often rehilted, so the hilt on yours is a bit of an anomoly, and the pommel and grip a bit different from most we see.

Most of these fairly modern kaskaras are 'kasallawi', that is furbished in the Kassala regions, and often using very old blades handed down for many generations or in as many cases, traded. They are most often Hadendoa weapons, and it is difficult to distinguish further which tribal entity within these confederations these kaskara fall into.

The markings with the rampant lion, the cross and orb and the 'fly' are well crafted native interpretations of older European markings which have been around from the much earlier trade blades often diffused through the vast trade networks across the Sahara. The 'fly' mark as discussed, derives primarily from the markings of the Kull family of Solingen, and is shown as either Peter or Samuel's markings presumed from about 1847 into c.1870.
The natives often integrated these markings into thier own traditional allegoric parlance, and the fly was believed to represent the warriors skill at elusive dexterity in combat.
They believed the cross and orb represented the drum, representing courage, and the rampant lion represents brave warriors as well.
These interpretations are from Ed Hunleys outstanding dissertation on the sword and knife makers of Kassala (posted on our website here).

I would say your blade has some age, probably into latter 19th century, and was probably into the present mounts, in this incarnation, as late as 1960, hard to say.

Keep in mind, these kaskara are still important status symbols to tribal people, and age of the weapon is perceived quite differently by us as collectors, than to those who view them as a continued tradition.

Hope this is of some help,
All the best,
Jim

P.S. the reason most historic weapons do not remain in location is that they have been collected away over many generations. In most cases with battlefields, these were scavenged and looted soon after the event, and the weapons were often sold off in bundles as surplus. Many of course became souveniers. In the Sudan, there was such demand for souveniers that the manufacture of items was actually engaged in England to provide native type items to the vendors there to sell. The most reliable sources we have are well provenanced items collected by troops immediately after battles, which have come down through estates and those now in museums.

[Cuirassier]

Thanks for that. The problem for me is I do not believe the blade is that recent. The markings, which I think you have alluded to, could well have been added at a later date. The passant lion done with copper (or possibly gold, but I think copper), plus the orb I am sure have been added to the blade sometime after the blade was made. The orb for example shows the pitting / tiny pot holes of the metal underneath, so these tiny holes were there when the orb was added. I can not see the mayfly marks easily, as they are hidden under the langets, but again these could have been added later.

Very old blades are not my thing. I love Napoleonic and more recent swords most. But I have seen and handled a number of older blades, as I have handled kaskaras, some of which had trade blades.

The blade I have is naturally aged; I think the photos show this. I do not believe a blade made in Prussia mid-late 19th Century would a) have this amount of aging and b) have aged like this one has, especially given the dry arid conditions of Somalia, etc. The blade has pitting and corrosion not from rust (as well I know that "friend" very well). I do not think a Solingen blade maker would have made anything so "rustic" (thinking back to the orb and tiny aging or forging holes); the other trade blades I have seen in kaskaras were not like this. It is difficult because kaskara blades were modeled on ancient blades, so this one could have been made any time from 1100 to 1900, but I am so sure it is not 18th / 19th Century I am going to try and find a carbon dating facility here in Portugal to see if it can be accurately age dated.

So watch this space!
Cheers
Mark

[stephen wood]

Blades with these markings are noted as being imported to Kordofan and Darfur in the 1830's.

[Edster]

This is an interesting thread. Brings back lots of memories.

I am intrigued by Mark's sword. It is stylistically unique, at least to me. I am not familiar with the style of grip and handle. Also, the long piece perpendicular to the cross guard (don't know its technical name) appears to be riveted to the grip and due to its length must have been forge welded to the cross piece. The gross piece itself is tapered and appears to be of good quality and maybe early 19th Century.

The blade is also interesting. I agree with you Mark that it just looks old. The small missing peace appears to be an old chip-out possible from being struck from another sword. It some how looks thicker than many I have seen and may have been made from wrought iron, thus not an imported trade blade. Many of the native Sudanese blades of the Mahdi period and well before were brittle and broke during battle. It could well be an heirloom blade done up in more modern livery

As has been noted several times on the Forum, we have no good means to date blades. The oldest kaskara I know of with attribution are museum pieces reputed to have belonged to Ali Dinar around 1821, I think. That blade is presumably imported. Maker's marks are of some help since the "maker" has a known production life span, but many marks are copied or intrepeted locally as those posts discuss above.

Perhaps we can develop a data base of metallurgical analysis. This may be difficult with collector pieces in that investigation leaves a mark about the size of a dime. Photomicrographs requires an etching and polishing a small portion of the blade, but the crystaline structure of the blade can be very telling. Is it wrought iron, mild steel, carbon steel, other alloy steel? Was it work hardened or quenched and tempered or just quenched? My knowledge is limited to memories of metallurgical course some 50 years ago, but I enjoyed the lab work.

The watershed in native Sudanese blade materials came with the British occupation and railroad construction after 1899 when modern steel became available locally and in large amounts. At least in 1986 and probably before Kassala blades were made from lorry leaf springs. This material no doubt has a metallurgical signature, likewise do Soligen and other import blades as well as wrought iron. I have seen demonstrations of leaf spring Kassala blades being bent almost double and spring back without any evidence of set. (The process can be tricky and dangerous if you don't have the knack.) Also, by holding the blade pointed up it can be shook rapidly and seem to quiver in your hand. Will older European blades, perhaps not made of spring steeel do that?

Who on the forum has metallurgical expertise and maybe a metallurgical microscope and Brinnel hardness tester, and who has blades that they would be willing to suffer a polished spot as a sample? Perhaps we could do a workshop next year at Timonium with esperts who knows what they are talking about. Certainly not me.

Regards,
Ed

[Jeff D]

I have the exact same blade in much better condition. As stated by Jim the maker is Kull and is mid 19th Century. See this thread for pictures and references.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=Cronau

All the Best
Jeff

[Iain]

Unless my memory is really going, assuming this is a trade blade it is a Kull blade, specifically the 1847 export pattern and not uncommon in kaskara. I have a scan somewhere from the blade markings book where it is positively IDed, if you want to PM or email me I'd be happy to send it to you. These blades also appear in takouba, but reprofiled with narrow, rounded tips. There are also native copies, often without the stamps but very similar geometry. The stamps on this one appear clear however and, from as much as I can see in the photos appears to match other Kull examples precisely.

So, in summary, Peter Kull, mid 1800s, a well liked export pattern in the Sudan that also found it's way into takouba. I'm more intrigued by the pommel on your sword to be honest, what on earth is it made of? Never seen one quite like it.

[Cuirassier]

Thanks for the replies.

Sorry, I do not believe this is an 19th Century Prussian blade, at all, 100% not.

I may not have an 1100 / 1200 Crusader blade, but I absolutely do not have a 19th Century Prussian blade either; the later I can speak with some level of knowledge.

Why would a 19C Prussian blade maker;
a) Traditionally hand forge a blade in the old European style / methods?
b) Copy a bulbous blade from hundreds of years before? Remember, the blade in mine and other similar kaskaras do not have an essential facet of European blades post, what, 17th Century; a forte.
c) Risk being the laughing stock of Prussia / Solingen; the centre of the sword making industry in Europe?

Conjecture.
Someone in the Sudan lands copied the mayfly trademark of Peter Kull, the orb of various earlier European swords, then added their own lion. Then, one day, a sword expert came along and found a few of these blades. "Ah, the mark of Peter Kull. So these other markings must be his too.". I notice I believe that these various marks are stated as being "attributed with" or "connected to" Kull, not known 100% marks of his? Nor would they be in 19th Century Solingen. Prussian makers made fine etched blades, not iron rich traditionally forged lumps with such basic maker marks (mayfly) stamped into them. Prussian blade makers were very proud; this is NOT a 19th Century Prussian blade.

I am not trying to convince myself I have the legend (a Crusader's blade). It most likely is a locally made blade IMHO. The trouble is, if I get the blade carbon dated, I may well get a 19th Century result that some would argue means the blade was made by Kull of Solingen. But, the more I look at the blade, the more I say to myself "If a Solingen maker produced this blade in the mid-19th Century, he would be derided everywhere you look."

Edster
The grip etc. is weird. I think the pommel nut is perhaps copper alloy because a) the coloration and b) the blue oxidation present. I have seen these pommel nuts before from the side (did not look nor see passant lions on the top) but can not remember where - they are quite common I think with these strange ridge protrusions.

The grip / hilt assembly is odd but very, very strong, and I believe period (late 19th Century / early 20th) because of the pommel nut. Why would anyone regrip the sword this way retaining the pommel nut? I mean, if it is one of these rastifications people talk about, where katana blades have been "restored" to crusader period mounts, they would not have kept the pommel nut. Kaskara hilts have a tendency to be frail right? This one is not for sure.

[Jim McDougall]

Jeff, thank you so much, now I recall that blade of yours and in particular the copper inlaid cross and orb, a subject of considerable discussion back then.

After seeing Jeff's blade carrying these same markings but with a blade with different fuller it suggests these very well may be native copies of earlier blade forms and using the Kull marks. It does seem that some native stamps reflected copies of the Solingen markings well established in extant trade blades and particular makers in certain areas adopted a certain consistancy in use of marks groupings that reflected certain symbolic character.

As far as I know, Solingen trade blades, especially in these later times, did not carry copper or brass inlaid markings, but did sometimes have marks of makers or purveyors. It does seem that several types of fullering or channels were typical in native kaskara blades, and Mark's example and Jeff's carry the marks grouping with association to the Kull marks, while being of two of the fuller patterns.

Mark, it should be noted that Solingen was very much an industrial cartel that produced blades of many styles that were intended to certain markets. They were producing rapier blades for Spain and her colonies long after the narrow blade rapier had become obsolete elsewhere. The blades for many different types of sword were continued as dictated by traditions kept in place for periods long after the initial form originally had been supplanted by other influences and forms. This is very much in keeping with 'revival' type weapons in many cultures and the reason why we see anachonistic styles in many native weapons such as Egyptian style features in many African weapons; kopis and machaira style features in Indian and other forms etc.
In Solingen certain blades often carried certain inscriptions that seem to have suggested a 'brand' system for blade types to certain markets, such as 'Andrea Ferara' on the blades destined to Scottish markets; and Sahagun to certain Continental markets.
Solingen and England both procuced antiquated sickle form blades to Abyssinia into to the 1930s for thier shotels, and it does seem that a number of European produced blades of broadsword blades for native markets did come out of Solingen. It is about commerce most of all rather than current styles or fashion.

Ed, I believe that Ali Dinar,who was the last sultan of Darfur, was killed in 1916 by British forces during insurgences at that time, if that is the one you are referring to. I am not sure of others with that name were earlier.

All best regards,
Jim