Talismanic symbols on moro kris blades gallery!

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

The most common muslim symbol seems to be what Cato (p. 102) refers to as the Ring of Solomon (The square with looped corners).

Well, i guess that's a magick square of sorts...
I don't think we will be all too successful stopping the commentary on posted images so i suggest we just let it come and sort it out as we go...

[kai]

I believe that almost anything related to weapons in their traditional cultural setting (especially personal sidearms like kris/keris) is bound to touch on talismanic functions, magick and local belief systems (which doesn't preclude any features from being also decorative elements and/or signifying status, too).

I agree that there may be features which are likely to be more for showing off than talismanic function (like junggayan pommels and other readily seen features). I'd be very cautious to declare any "hidden" features (like inlaid blades) to be merely decorative though, especially since a lot of the knowledge surrounding talismanic functions obviously has been kept secret and/or lost.

Regards,
Kai

[VVV]

Originally Posted by David

Well, i guess that's a magick square of sorts... ...

Ha, ha,
But seriously I took for granted that all of you were familiar with the concept of a "magic square", which is an academic term, and other square symbolism used in magic, like the Ring of Solomon. A better term would maybe be talismanic diagram, like Mohd suggested, because usually either the number or letter values in the square (or rectangle) gives the same sum in each column and row.

A very good reference work is the article Islamic and Indian Magic Squares by Schuyler Cammann. Part I was published in History of Religions Vol. 8, No. 3 (Feb, 1969) pp. 181 - 209 and Part II in History of Religions Vol. 8, No. 4 (May, 1969) pp. 271 - 299.

Michael

[Tatyana Dianova]

I am really sorry to introduce in this thread a non-Moro stuff, but after seeing the Kai's blade I simply cannot hold back The silver "crowns" are almost identical to the decoration on a West Anatolian yataghan I have (with twisted core, by the way...) Do somebody know what these "crowns" mean and how can they be so similar??? It should be some Islamic symbol...

[Maurice]

Thank you Michael for sharing these wonderfull krisses!
You've got some diversity of symbols there!

I wonder in what kind the symbols (crowns-liked) in Kai's kris is differing with the almost same symbols as the "stars" that Michael has on some krisses...

Tatyana also great reference to put your image of the yataghan. It indeed has comparisons with the symbols of Kai's piece, but than with a better "finish".

[Maurice]

In this thread I'd like to share images of this kris, which is from the collection Beijens, and is now in hands of the Bronbeek Museum in Arnhem.

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

Ha, ha,
But seriously I took for granted that all of you were familiar with the concept of a "magic square", which is an academic term, and other square symbolism used in magic, like the Ring of Solomon. A better term would maybe be talismanic diagram, like Mohd suggested, because usually either the number or letter values in the square (or rectangle) gives the same sum in each column and row.

Michael, of course i am familiar with the concept of the magick square which is why a wrote "of sorts" and ended my comment with a wink....get it?

[VVV]

David,

Of course I understood that you were joking (= "Ha, ha, But seriously...") but it also made me aware that maybe not all forumites are familiar with this concept.
However I also think there might be a problem when you spell it "magick square". For me you then are not directly referring to this specific concept but doing a personal belief (maybe in a way a semi-religious?) statement were the concept of "magick" (vs. "non-Crowleyan etc." magic) is stressed more than what we are discussing.

Michael

[Spunjer]

here's another one. green blade and all

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

here's another one. green blade and all

That's a fine one Ron!
Very interesting signs! Do you happen been able to clearify any of them?

[VVV]

Ron, your blade is almost a talismanic overdose.
I start with an interpretation of the first symbol, maybe someone else has other explanations or know the meaning of the other ones?
The 2 squares in an angle forming an eight-pointed star follows the principle of the double cross. A cross redistributes evil forces away from you, like a road crossing.

Michael

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

David,

Of course I understood that you were joking (= "Ha, ha, But seriously...") but it also made me aware that maybe not all forumites are familiar with this concept.
However I also think there might be a problem when you spell it "magick square". For me you then are not directly referring to this specific concept but doing a personal belief (maybe in a way a semi-religious?) statement were the concept of "magick" (vs. "non-Crowleyan etc." magic) is stressed more than what we are discussing.

Michael

Sorry i didn't notice your comment earlier Michael, but a current thread sent me back here and i just noticed your response. To clear up your misconception, my use of the spelling "magick" is my way of distinguishing the commonly held idea of magic (hocus pocus stage magic and slight of hand) from it's more occult forms. Has nothing to do with Crowley. Sorry if this causes you confusion, but i will in all probability continue to use this spelling when discussing magick in this context.

[VVV]

David,

It was Aleister Crowley who defined (stipulated) the difference between the two kinds of magic (magic vs magick) you describe. I assumed in my comment that you were aware of this fact based on your interest in "magick". Obviously I was wrong on this. My comment that the term "magick" is semi religious of course presupposed that you were familiar with its background.

Michael

[David]

Originally Posted by VVV

David,

It was Aleister Crowley who defined (stipulated) the difference between the two kinds of magic (magic vs magick) you describe. I assumed in my comment that you were aware of this fact based on your interest in "magick". Obviously I was wrong on this. My comment that the term "magick" is semi religious of course presupposed that you were familiar with its background.

Michael

Hi Michael. Since Detlef has revived this thread i just noticed that i never responded to your last post to me. Yes, i am very familiar with Crowley's writings and that he is indeed credited with first making this spelling distinction (magick vs magic). So no, you were not wrong on this. However, it does not change the fact that personally i have chosen to adopt the spelling of magick with a "k" whenever i use the word when it is associated with "real" magick as opposed to stage magic such as slight-of-hand or other performance tricks. This distinction for me has little to do with what Crowley's chosen magickal practices were. It is simply a way to separate the spiritual from entertainment. Obviously magick squares have nothing to do with entertainment in this regard, so i will continue to use the spelling of magick with a "k" when i discuss these things. Sorry if folks find this confusing.
Also sorry this response took more than 10 years! LOL!