Shamshir, (number 2) translation and comments please

tom hyle · 7th July 2011, 02:12 PM

the grip strikes me as a replacement.
It is clunky.
It may be poorly fit (it may have shrunk to leave a gap, but the abrupt depth of the slot the lagnet is in is also suspect)
But most tellingly it does not go into the handguard or even underneath the upper lagnet. These crossguards are usually also ferules, and this along with the upper lagnet serving as a clamp by going over the grip, eliminates the need for a rivet near the blade shoulders, which rivet's hole would be a weak point. This is where machetes break, for instance, and old N American butchers' cleavers and similar tools often have a similar feature whereby a ferule eliminates a rivet close to the juncture of blade and handle.
I had a kard with a poorly fitted black horn grip. My thought was water buffaloe.

katana · 10th July 2011, 01:07 AM

Hi Tom,
the slabs are higher than the langets.....the langets are very 'low' in comparision to the other shamshirs....will try and confirm /disprove the possibillity of the slabs being rhino.

Kind Regards David

katana · 12th July 2011, 02:13 PM

Manouchehr on SFI has kindly translated the 2 lower catouches, his interpretation is that cartouche 2 (middle) is "Ya Qathi al hajat (Oh, the fulfiller of wishes)" .The lower is "Ya Kafi al Muhemmat (Oh, the realizer of magnificent deeds)".

He agrees that the upper is not very clear but has also said like Dom that Amale (the work of) and Mohammed are more easily readable But, has suggested that there is seyf and possibly mesri there as well.

Regards David

ALEX · 12th July 2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Tom,
the slabs are higher than the langets.....the langets are very 'low' in comparision to the other shamshirs....will try and confirm /disprove the possibillity of the slabs being rhino.

Kind Regards David

Agree with Tom. The grips are later replacements. they're made of horn, not rhino.

A.alnakkas · 12th July 2011, 03:55 PM

I seen such rehilting before. One on a persian shamshir and 2 on european solingen blades but all were wood except for the persian, it was some time of horn.

katana · 12th July 2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALEX

Agree with Tom. The grips are later replacements. they're made of horn, not rhino.

Hi Tom and Alex,
you are correct....originally I thought I saw some translucence 'peering' through the grime on the slabs....indicating the 'possibility' of Rhino. I have cleaned them up ....definately horn....water buffalo a strong possibility.

Regards David

AJ1356 · 13th July 2011, 04:38 PM

I can not make the inscription closest to the hilt but the one farthest from the hilt reads عمل میرزا محمد یوسف meaning work of Mirza Mohammad Yosouf. I believe the Shamshir to be of persian (iranian/afghan) origin. Maybe a better picture of the other incription would help.

7th July 2011, 02:12 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	the grip strikes me as a replacement. It is clunky. It may be poorly fit (it may have shrunk to leave a gap, but the abrupt depth of the slot the lagnet is in is also suspect) But most tellingly it does not go into the handguard or even underneath the upper lagnet. These crossguards are usually also ferules, and this along with the upper lagnet serving as a clamp by going over the grip, eliminates the need for a rivet near the blade shoulders, which rivet's hole would be a weak point. This is where machetes break, for instance, and old N American butchers' cleavers and similar tools often have a similar feature whereby a ferule eliminates a rivet close to the juncture of blade and handle. I had a kard with a poorly fitted black horn grip. My thought was water buffaloe.

10th July 2011, 01:07 AM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tom, the slabs are higher than the langets.....the langets are very 'low' in comparision to the other shamshirs....will try and confirm /disprove the possibillity of the slabs being rhino. Kind Regards David

12th July 2011, 02:13 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Manouchehr on SFI has kindly translated the 2 lower catouches, his interpretation is that cartouche 2 (middle) is "Ya Qathi al hajat (Oh, the fulfiller of wishes)" .The lower is "Ya Kafi al Muhemmat (Oh, the realizer of magnificent deeds)". He agrees that the upper is not very clear but has also said like Dom that Amale (the work of) and Mohammed are more easily readable But, has suggested that there is seyf and possibly mesri there as well. Regards David

12th July 2011, 03:55 PM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	I seen such rehilting before. One on a persian shamshir and 2 on european solingen blades but all were wood except for the persian, it was some time of horn.

13th July 2011, 04:38 PM	#7
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	I can not make the inscription closest to the hilt but the one farthest from the hilt reads عمل میرزا محمد یوسف meaning work of Mirza Mohammad Yosouf. I believe the Shamshir to be of persian (iranian/afghan) origin. Maybe a better picture of the other incription would help.