What is this??

kahnjar1 · 4th July 2011, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Stu,
cannot add any other ideas that hasn't already been said. But, I am intriqued by the curved spike on the pommel.....it looks as if it would interfere with the wielding hand ...perhaps painfully ? Any ideas why it is there ?

Kind Regards David

Bottle opener??

Seriously though I have no idea. As it has not arrived yet I can not comment as to it interfering with the grip.
Really more interested in finding out WHAT this knife/sword is.

kahnjar1 · 5th July 2011, 07:53 AM

SURELY SOMEBODY MUST HAVE AN IDEA???

Atlantia · 6th July 2011, 09:47 AM

Hi Stu,

I'm sure we've all seen a lot of modern Indian daggers with these Parrot head hilts.
But as has been pointed out, there is a tradition of using them.
I'd say from looking at yours, that the 'beak' although on the face of it seeming like a bad idea, would possibly not interfere with a grip as there seems to be enough room for a little finger under it. The gap seems sufficient.

Without the parrot head, this would be a big koummya/Shula. For me the blade and scabbard are not different enough from examples I've seen to raise any eyebrows (apart maybe from the size!).

As for if it was made by a Moroccan who'd seen an Indian dagger or an Indian copying a Moroccan form or even making it for a Moroccan customer......
Could be any.
My first thought was Indian in the Moroccan style, but the decoration and construction remind me of native koummya.
Koummya even turn up with imported european blades made in the traditional form.

So, no conclusive answer, but I'd spend some time comparing construction and decoration once you have it in hand. That should complete the puzzle.
A nice thing actually.

some good old threads on Koummya:
http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

Martin Lubojacky · 6th July 2011, 04:22 PM

The blade, style of decoration both on the sheath and handle is Maghreb.

Not the same, but also interesting case of Maghreb art: Below please find 10 years old photo of dagger from Tunissia: It was cca 45 cms long, big - massive handle with cock head pommel, the the scabbard and handle made of massive pure silver - and it was new (nevertheless very professional work) at that time.
regards,
Martin

kahnjar1 · 8th August 2011, 07:40 AM

Well it has at long last arrived! A really nice item in the flesh. That spike does NOT interfere in any way with the grip. There is plenty of room for my hand without it touching the spike.
.................and we are no closer in identifying what it is?? Presumably Indo- Persian but with a very "moroccan type" blade??

Tim Simmons · 8th August 2011, 09:11 PM

North African . The blade, the scabbard fittings, can be nothing else! That is a strong statement.

Battara · 8th August 2011, 11:24 PM

The workmanship and, chasing work, scabbard, and blade do look Moroccan don't they? Although the hilt looks Indian......

kahnjar1 · 9th August 2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

North African . The blade, the scabbard fittings, can be nothing else! That is a strong statement.

I agree.........BUT WHAT IS IT? Is it a Shula variant or is it something else entirely? As stated previously I can find nothing like it in any books I have, although it is obviously NOT a one off, as the previous thread pics included above show a very similar but not the same item.

5th July 2011, 07:53 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	???? SURELY SOMEBODY MUST HAVE AN IDEA???

6th July 2011, 04:22 PM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	The blade, style of decoration both on the sheath and handle is Maghreb. Not the same, but also interesting case of Maghreb art: Below please find 10 years old photo of dagger from Tunissia: It was cca 45 cms long, big - massive handle with cock head pommel, the the scabbard and handle made of massive pure silver - and it was new (nevertheless very professional work) at that time. regards, Martin Attached Images

6th July 2011, 09:47 AM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Stu, I'm sure we've all seen a lot of modern Indian daggers with these Parrot head hilts. But as has been pointed out, there is a tradition of using them. I'd say from looking at yours, that the 'beak' although on the face of it seeming like a bad idea, would possibly not interfere with a grip as there seems to be enough room for a little finger under it. The gap seems sufficient. Without the parrot head, this would be a big koummya/Shula. For me the blade and scabbard are not different enough from examples I've seen to raise any eyebrows (apart maybe from the size!). As for if it was made by a Moroccan who'd seen an Indian dagger or an Indian copying a Moroccan form or even making it for a Moroccan customer...... Could be any. My first thought was Indian in the Moroccan style, but the decoration and construction remind me of native koummya. Koummya even turn up with imported european blades made in the traditional form. So, no conclusive answer, but I'd spend some time comparing construction and decoration once you have it in hand. That should complete the puzzle. A nice thing actually. some good old threads on Koummya: http://www.vikingsword.com/ethsword/koummya/index.html

8th August 2011, 07:40 AM	#5
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Well it has at long last arrived! A really nice item in the flesh. That spike does NOT interfere in any way with the grip. There is plenty of room for my hand without it touching the spike. .................and we are no closer in identifying what it is?? Presumably Indo- Persian but with a very "moroccan type" blade??

8th August 2011, 09:11 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	North African . The blade, the scabbard fittings, can be nothing else! That is a strong statement.

8th August 2011, 11:24 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	The workmanship and, chasing work, scabbard, and blade do look Moroccan don't they? Although the hilt looks Indian......