Restoration Workshop Library.

A.alnakkas · 30th June 2011, 08:16 PM

Excellent idea, i very much agree! Many experienced people here have tried to teach me how to etch but its not that easy to learn or to sum up the courage to do something that may damage an item.

I think the best idea is to actually make a video of the etching process, with detailed pictures of each material to be used and even whats NOT to use. Such a video will save time and precious weapons alot more then textual education i believe, one also must put in mind that even though the majority of us speak english fluently, it is still not "easy" for most of us to fully understand a lesson textually especially without images/vids.

kahnjar1 · 1st July 2011, 07:17 AM

Whilst I agree with Ibrahiim, that a "library of restoration" is a good idea and maybe warrants a "Sticky" if it progresses that far, I believe that one needs to define "restoration" before anything is put together.
To me restoration is NOT returning an item to NEW condition. What we collect in most cases is HISTORY and that can very easily be destroyed by careless use of such things as grinding wheels, and replacement of old parts with new. IMHO that is doing nothing but creating a REPLICA of the original.
By all means clean off rust etc., and repair broken parts, but to UNNECESSARILY replace with NEW parts in my opinion is destructive.

Gavin Nugent · 1st July 2011, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

UNNECESSARILY replace with NEW parts in my opinion is destructive.

Stu,

I think this phrase should be taken in context and case by case.
A little while back I had a unique and prize jian fully restored for a client.
It was in pieces and lacked the correct guard. Now it has replaced hilt timbers, antiqued ray skin and new aged guard with the same patina as the rest of the sword and is one of the most stunning Jian I have laid eyes on.

Without this process of NEW parts, to sum it up, it would be a pig and unusable or appreciated.

Gav

ariel · 1st July 2011, 12:12 PM

Just a question: what is the proper way to secure the crossguard on a kilij?
Long time ago, Artzi suggested wrapping a thin ribbon of leather at the "ricasso" , glue it, mount the guard and then filling the cavity with some hardening material for a secure bond ( epoxy as per his recommendation). This works very well from the mechanical point of view.
But I am just wondering whether anybody knows an alternative method?

katana · 1st July 2011, 06:58 PM

I think this is a good idea and have mentioned in a few threads that it would be nice to have restoration techniques (DIY guides) put in a single package. Another, useful reference would be what and where to source materials for restoration. Wood is a particular problem, locally sourced wood used in the manufacture of weapons, scabbards, hilts etc are often difficult to find in our native countries. So ID's of the original wood used would be great so that you have a chance of repairing/replacing with the authentic material or have the information to make enquiries abroad to source the correct timber.

Information on the original manufacturing techniques and substances (natural glues, stains etc) are extremely useful for restoration too. For instance I had to re-haft a Zulu spearhead.....using their methods I was able to replicate a reasonably 'authentic' spear.....although the wood is incorrect, it is a good substitute.

Kind Regards David

kahnjar1 · 1st July 2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Stu,

I think this phrase should be taken in context and case by case.
A little while back I had a unique and prize jian fully restored for a client.
It was in pieces and lacked the correct guard. Now it has replaced hilt timbers, antiqued ray skin and new aged guard with the same patina as the rest of the sword and is one of the most stunning Jian I have laid eyes on.

Without this process of NEW parts, to sum it up, it would be a pig and unusable or appreciated.

Gav

Agreed and that is why I used the word UNNECESSARILY.
There is one other aspect to this and that is that we all like to try to collect GENUINE items, and with the very excellent restoration done by some, there COULD be danger in future years for somebody unwittingly buying what APPEARS to be a genuine piece in excellent condition, at a very high price, when in fact it is not original.
We do not all have the expertise to identify replaced parts when the antiquing and aging has been carried out in a way which has MAYBE been designed to deceive.
PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE IS NO INTENTION HERE TO SUGGEST THAT THIS PRACTICE IS BEING CARRIED OUT BY MEMBERS, BUT AS WE KNOW THERE ARE SOME VERY CLEAVER COPIES COMING OUT OF ASIA THESE DAYS!!

Rick · 2nd July 2011, 05:17 PM

Possibly 'Conservation' rather than 'Restoration' should be used as a title for this proposed thread/page .

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 3rd July 2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Possibly 'Conservation' rather than 'Restoration' should be used as a title for this proposed thread/page .

Salaams ... But its both dont you think? On the one hand its restoration which deserves a full library of on going techniques and ideas whilst on the other a couple of paragraphs on conservation as required. If I have a rusty or damaged blade, hilt, scabbard or gunbarrel etc... its the restoration I want. Thats where an alphabetical index of expanding ideas and techniques comes in very useful and is in itself "furum driven" by members adding to and expanding the library as a work in progress.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

1st July 2011, 07:17 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,789	Care Please Whilst I agree with Ibrahiim, that a "library of restoration" is a good idea and maybe warrants a "Sticky" if it progresses that far, I believe that one needs to define "restoration" before anything is put together. To me restoration is NOT returning an item to NEW condition. What we collect in most cases is HISTORY and that can very easily be destroyed by careless use of such things as grinding wheels, and replacement of old parts with new. IMHO that is doing nothing but creating a REPLICA of the original. By all means clean off rust etc., and repair broken parts, but to UNNECESSARILY replace with NEW parts in my opinion is destructive.

30th June 2011, 08:16 PM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Excellent idea, i very much agree! Many experienced people here have tried to teach me how to etch but its not that easy to learn or to sum up the courage to do something that may damage an item. I think the best idea is to actually make a video of the etching process, with detailed pictures of each material to be used and even whats NOT to use. Such a video will save time and precious weapons alot more then textual education i believe, one also must put in mind that even though the majority of us speak english fluently, it is still not "easy" for most of us to fully understand a lesson textually especially without images/vids.

1st July 2011, 12:12 PM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Just a question: what is the proper way to secure the crossguard on a kilij? Long time ago, Artzi suggested wrapping a thin ribbon of leather at the "ricasso" , glue it, mount the guard and then filling the cavity with some hardening material for a secure bond ( epoxy as per his recommendation). This works very well from the mechanical point of view. But I am just wondering whether anybody knows an alternative method?

1st July 2011, 06:58 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I think this is a good idea and have mentioned in a few threads that it would be nice to have restoration techniques (DIY guides) put in a single package. Another, useful reference would be what and where to source materials for restoration. Wood is a particular problem, locally sourced wood used in the manufacture of weapons, scabbards, hilts etc are often difficult to find in our native countries. So ID's of the original wood used would be great so that you have a chance of repairing/replacing with the authentic material or have the information to make enquiries abroad to source the correct timber. Information on the original manufacturing techniques and substances (natural glues, stains etc) are extremely useful for restoration too. For instance I had to re-haft a Zulu spearhead.....using their methods I was able to replicate a reasonably 'authentic' spear.....although the wood is incorrect, it is a good substitute. Kind Regards David

2nd July 2011, 05:17 PM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Possibly 'Conservation' rather than 'Restoration' should be used as a title for this proposed thread/page .