The Syrian Jambiya/Khanjar

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Devadatta

Just to share mine...

Excellent examples.
I like the tray as well!!!
I actually had mine displayed with an Ottoman/Syrian tray for a while!
Which neatly brings me back to the influence of Ottoman rule on that part of the world.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Excellent examples.
I like the tray as well!!!
I actually had mine displayed with an Ottoman/Syrian tray for a while!
Which neatly brings me back to the influence of Ottoman rule on that part of the world.

Dom and Mrs Dom, have been kind enought to provide a translation of the Syrian tray I posted:

Central Tughra: Abdülhamid II

Outer panels:

"- 1 - MASAA'AEB EL ENDA ASSABRE read it normally, and you will have the Arabic reading)
- 1 - THE PATIENCE IN CATASTROPHE

- 2 - MAWAHEB EL AZAMETE MENE
- 2 - IS FROM A GREAT TALENT

- 3 (above) - DAMASCUS SANA 1908
- 3 (below) - NASSAM AMAL

- 3 (above) - YEAR 1908 DAMASCUS
- 3 (below) - DONE BY NASSAM

- 4 - ABIB AL ZEKHRE ALA CHOURBENA MAZAK
- 4 - WITH THE TASTE OF OUR DRINKS, WE WE RECALL, THE MEMORY OF OUR LOVER (under-meaning, the Holy Prophet Mohamed)"

Thank you my friend.

[ariel]

Two and a half years ago, I posted here a real sword with identical handle. Then, it did not attract any attention.
Perhaps, it can add something to the present discussion.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=druze

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by ariel

Two and a half years ago, I posted here a real sword with identical handle. Then, it did not attract any attention.
Perhaps, it can add something to the present discussion.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=druze

Hi Ariel,

It appears to be a standard (size and shape) 'Damascus' type dagger hilt mounted to a sword blade. Rather than some specific sword variation of that type.
There seem to be no adaptations or even concessions to the longer blade, even though Syrian swords are often Shamshir type (with guards) and the blade is a sabre which presumably had a guard of familiar type.
Also of course the blade is a 'foreign' sabre and not a Syrian blade (like those in the daggers).
The scabbard mounts are a mixture of the usual kind of 'shamshir' scabbard hangers and crude throat/chape that follow the general construction of those scabbards seen on the daggers.

So, I'd guess that this is a genuine period hybrid rather than a recognised tpye. An atypical re-using of a sabre blade by local craftsmen.
I'd guess at a date of between the wars.

Best
Gene

[Kubur]

Hi Guys
I know that is an old post.
But I have one question, you date these daggers, for the oldest ones, from the 1920ties. If you look the Charles Buttin catalogue, you will see the same kind of dagger dated from the 19th c. My question is do you think that sometimes you underestimate the antiquity of some objects? It's a classic case with the experimented collectors or the good dealers, they don't want to surestimate the age of an object... Just the opposite of the young collectors and bad dealers who want to make some money.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Kubur

Hi Guys
I know that is an old post.
But I have one question, you date these daggers, for the oldest ones, from the 1920ties. If you look the Charles Buttin catalogue, you will see the same kind of dagger dated from the 19th c. My question is do you think that sometimes you underestimate the antiquity of some objects? It's a classic case with the experimented collectors or the good dealers, they don't want to surestimate the age of an object... Just the opposite of the young collectors and bad dealers who want to make some money.

Hi Kubur,
I think that what you suggest is probably quite true. It must be remembered that this type of weapon was not generally made in a factory, so that unlike (for example) English Firearms from known makers, where production information is usually readily available, ACTUAL manufacture dates of these, and other "ethnic" daggers and weapons can not generally be accurately verified. We have publications from early travellers in the region, and more modern publications, but I am sure that all of these probably contain some errors. In the end it comes down to the knowledge (or lack of it) of the individual to determine the age of an item.
The bottom line is LET THE BUYER BEWARE. I have before quoted this statement made to me years ago by a now long gone collector. He said to me that "If it does not look right, then it probably isn't". This has stood me in good stead over the years.
Stu

[Kubur]

Just to come back at this old post and what I said about these daggers. Some of them are clearly from the 19th c. Look at the silver or lead star patterns, they are exactly the same on the the Syrian or badawi swords...