African Spear ...Congolese ?

colin henshaw · 15th June 2011, 05:23 PM

Hi David

The best I can lay my hands on at the moment is this illustration (on the far right), from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" by Museum fur Volkerkunde 1985. This example is described as Bornu.

Regards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Colin,
thanks for your thoughts

Have you any pictures you could post ? I'm really stumped with this spear

Kind Regards David

katana · 15th June 2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi David

The best I can lay my hands on at the moment is this illustration (on the far right), from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" by Museum fur Volkerkunde 1985. This example is described as Bornu.

Regards.

Thanks Colin

,
indeed very similar. The spear length is quoted as 161.5 cms this might explain the longer socket ....due to the size, to re-inforce the connection with the shaft.

Kind Regards

tom hyle · 16th June 2011, 01:08 PM

There are a couple of differences between the spear we are asked about and the one in the illustration that I find meaningfull, despite an overall similar shape including relatively long nontapering sockets: first is that though the socket ends in a pointed shape in the illustration, it does not seem to indicate the cone, but two more abrupt bolster type lines that intersect. I do not think this is a version of the same feature; I think it is two different features. The second is more subtle, and is that the shoulders where the blade narrows are quite steadily rounded in the illustreation, whereas those on the question spear swing in to a very close approximation of a line that is perpendicular to the socket.

tom hyle · 7th July 2011, 03:04 AM

For an interesting photo comparison see ebay #360371961389 (ended)
There are a couple of daggers currently on ebay with the bolsters like this, but I have to wait for them to end to mention them specifically, and one of them is a perenial relist....
email me at notthattomhyle@hotmail.com and I'll give you those auctions and a couple other photo ones that are active.

tom hyle · 9th July 2011, 07:33 AM

BTW, the ebay item is an old photo of an African arab ox rider with a spear.

katana · 12th July 2011, 11:34 PM

This eprey listing just finished....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Almost identical to my posted examples (thanks Tom for the 'heads up') Seller suggesting Sudan (or possibly Dogon) as origin. However, Tom also e-mailed some links to several pictures of Sudanese Arab Ox/horse riders with identically shaped spearheads (unfortunately too distant to see any features such as the triangular/conical feature) The horse riders are described as Aulad Hamid Arab horsemen, in the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan 1930

Mods..I have edited/altered the images...if there is any problem with copyright please delete

All the best
David

katana · 15th July 2011, 08:32 PM

Pictures from the ended eBay listing.........as you can see ....identical looking even the design on the socket is the same (the last 2 images are of mine)

12th July 2011, 11:34 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	This eprey listing just finished.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT Almost identical to my posted examples (thanks Tom for the 'heads up') Seller suggesting Sudan (or possibly Dogon) as origin. However, Tom also e-mailed some links to several pictures of Sudanese Arab Ox/horse riders with identically shaped spearheads (unfortunately too distant to see any features such as the triangular/conical feature) The horse riders are described as Aulad Hamid Arab horsemen, in the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan 1930 Mods..I have edited/altered the images...if there is any problem with copyright please delete All the best David Attached Images Last edited by katana; 13th July 2011 at 12:01 AM.

15th July 2011, 08:32 PM	#7
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Pictures from the ended eBay listing.........as you can see ....identical looking even the design on the socket is the same (the last 2 images are of mine) Attached Images

16th June 2011, 01:08 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	There are a couple of differences between the spear we are asked about and the one in the illustration that I find meaningfull, despite an overall similar shape including relatively long nontapering sockets: first is that though the socket ends in a pointed shape in the illustration, it does not seem to indicate the cone, but two more abrupt bolster type lines that intersect. I do not think this is a version of the same feature; I think it is two different features. The second is more subtle, and is that the shoulders where the blade narrows are quite steadily rounded in the illustreation, whereas those on the question spear swing in to a very close approximation of a line that is perpendicular to the socket.

7th July 2011, 03:04 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	For an interesting photo comparison see ebay #360371961389 (ended) There are a couple of daggers currently on ebay with the bolsters like this, but I have to wait for them to end to mention them specifically, and one of them is a perenial relist.... email me at notthattomhyle@hotmail.com and I'll give you those auctions and a couple other photo ones that are active.

9th July 2011, 07:33 AM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, the ebay item is an old photo of an African arab ox rider with a spear.