A Saturday afternoon African riddle

tom hyle · 12th June 2011, 12:31 AM

tuareq?
The takouba form is used by multiple tribes.....is this solid brass or wood-filled?
The blade seems odd, too; very thick and rather narrow for a takouba.

A.alnakkas · 12th June 2011, 08:31 AM

Not going to say any opinion as I am no expert but I cant wait to see this one cleaned and ready

Blade looks much much older then the hilt though?

Iain · 12th June 2011, 09:09 AM

Tom,

Not Tuareg. This diamond cross section does not turn up in takouba really. Extremely thick tang.

Solid, cast hilt. Two piece design, guard and then single piece grip and pommel.

A.alnakkas,

Hilt should be contemporary with the blade. The cleaning on this is going to take a while. Decades of probably sitting in the roof of a hut hasn't been kind.

Keep guessing folks but forget the normal tribal associations of takouba.

I'll probably say what it actually is later today if there's not much more interest in guessing.

Cheers,

Iain

Gavin Nugent · 12th June 2011, 10:27 AM

I do not know Iain but the blade, although straight, shares a lot in common with your Chamba sword...is it Chamba?

Gav

Iain · 12th June 2011, 04:53 PM

Hi Gav,

Not Chamba - although the similarity is well noted and the similarity is what fascinated me in the first place.

This is not from anywhere near the Mandara mountains though - or even Nigeria for that matter (although I desperately want a Mandara piece, for those out there with them).

I've probably been enough of a tease. This was collected directly from the Lobi people (which is why I am lucky enough to have an exact tribal attribution and not have any guesswork involved

) in Burkina Faso. The group is mostly situated in that country as well as Ghana, where they originated from. They are not Islamic.

This is not a people known for swords. Which is why this piece surprised me. I have a takouba from the same group that appears largely ceremonial but this one, with a heavy duty iron blade and obvious signs of use seems to be a "user" although doubtless relegated to ceremonial functions later in life. Between this and various pieces from the Mandara area it seems to me more and more that these heavy, iron, diamond cross section blades are a style that was fairly widespread before Hausa/Sokoto economic and military dominance seems to have spread the takouba form pretty much everywhere.

I picked up the necessary cleaning supplies today and hopefully next week will have this one scrubbed up a bit better.

EDIT: While this was collected from the Lobi, I still have my doubts it originates with them. THey are known for bows and arrows not swords. An intriguing possibility is the Kenedougou empire which had a major offensive against the Lobi in the early 1800s. But that is a wild guess and I have no Kenedougou reference material to check it against.

Cheers,

Iain

Martin Lubojacky · 17th June 2011, 11:47 PM

Hello Iain,

This is excellent addition to your collection of Sahel straight swords. Congratulation to the sword and, since it is directly from Lobi (or lobby?), also to your sources/channels of supply. I am looking forward to seeing the sword cleaned and treated.
If I would not already know where it is comming from, I would also wager on this Mandara - Mambila region, like Gav...
Regards,
Martin

tom hyle · 18th June 2011, 11:29 AM

BTW, tang thicker than blade, sometimes 3 or 4 times as thick is pretty common on African swords; pretty common on takouba in my experience. It's a good thing.

Iain · 18th June 2011, 12:52 PM

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your kind words. I am finally branching out from just owning takoubas!

I am not entirely sure this is Lobi, although it definitely was in their possession. The form just seems wrong for the area, the work not characteristic of that people group.

I would also normally be quick to call it a Mandara sword, but that seems geographically a little far away for this example which most certainly was found in Burkina Faso.

I am still trying to clean off all the rust and scale. It is proving to be a very stubborn little thing. Meanwhile my quest for a true Mandara sword continues...

Cheers,

Iain

12th June 2011, 10:27 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A riddle.. I do not know Iain but the blade, although straight, shares a lot in common with your Chamba sword...is it Chamba? Gav

12th June 2011, 12:31 AM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	tuareq? The takouba form is used by multiple tribes.....is this solid brass or wood-filled? The blade seems odd, too; very thick and rather narrow for a takouba.

12th June 2011, 08:31 AM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Not going to say any opinion as I am no expert but I cant wait to see this one cleaned and ready Blade looks much much older then the hilt though?

12th June 2011, 09:09 AM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Tom, Not Tuareg. This diamond cross section does not turn up in takouba really. Extremely thick tang. Solid, cast hilt. Two piece design, guard and then single piece grip and pommel. A.alnakkas, Hilt should be contemporary with the blade. The cleaning on this is going to take a while. Decades of probably sitting in the roof of a hut hasn't been kind. Keep guessing folks but forget the normal tribal associations of takouba. I'll probably say what it actually is later today if there's not much more interest in guessing. Cheers, Iain

12th June 2011, 04:53 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hi Gav, Not Chamba - although the similarity is well noted and the similarity is what fascinated me in the first place. This is not from anywhere near the Mandara mountains though - or even Nigeria for that matter (although I desperately want a Mandara piece, for those out there with them). I've probably been enough of a tease. This was collected directly from the Lobi people (which is why I am lucky enough to have an exact tribal attribution and not have any guesswork involved ) in Burkina Faso. The group is mostly situated in that country as well as Ghana, where they originated from. They are not Islamic. This is not a people known for swords. Which is why this piece surprised me. I have a takouba from the same group that appears largely ceremonial but this one, with a heavy duty iron blade and obvious signs of use seems to be a "user" although doubtless relegated to ceremonial functions later in life. Between this and various pieces from the Mandara area it seems to me more and more that these heavy, iron, diamond cross section blades are a style that was fairly widespread before Hausa/Sokoto economic and military dominance seems to have spread the takouba form pretty much everywhere. I picked up the necessary cleaning supplies today and hopefully next week will have this one scrubbed up a bit better. EDIT: While this was collected from the Lobi, I still have my doubts it originates with them. THey are known for bows and arrows not swords. An intriguing possibility is the Kenedougou empire which had a major offensive against the Lobi in the early 1800s. But that is a wild guess and I have no Kenedougou reference material to check it against. Cheers, Iain

17th June 2011, 11:47 PM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hello Iain, This is excellent addition to your collection of Sahel straight swords. Congratulation to the sword and, since it is directly from Lobi (or lobby?), also to your sources/channels of supply. I am looking forward to seeing the sword cleaned and treated. If I would not already know where it is comming from, I would also wager on this Mandara - Mambila region, like Gav... Regards, Martin

18th June 2011, 11:29 AM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, tang thicker than blade, sometimes 3 or 4 times as thick is pretty common on African swords; pretty common on takouba in my experience. It's a good thing.

18th June 2011, 12:52 PM	#8
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hi Martin, Thanks for your kind words. I am finally branching out from just owning takoubas! I am not entirely sure this is Lobi, although it definitely was in their possession. The form just seems wrong for the area, the work not characteristic of that people group. I would also normally be quick to call it a Mandara sword, but that seems geographically a little far away for this example which most certainly was found in Burkina Faso. I am still trying to clean off all the rust and scale. It is proving to be a very stubborn little thing. Meanwhile my quest for a true Mandara sword continues... Cheers, Iain