Kattara for comments

[A.alnakkas]

Thanks for the info Ibrahim, Jazaak allah khair. I am very interested in Bani Ka'ab history and do know that the Buraimi Bani Ka'ab have fought alot of wars.

btw, my Kattara looks very attractive with that shield :P

[TVV]

Ibrahim, when I wrote "Omani broadsword" I was referring to the long kattara, not to the short sword. I should try to express myself clearer.

Regards,
Teodor

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by TVV

Ibrahim, when I wrote "Omani broadsword" I was referring to the long kattara, not to the short sword. I should try to express myself clearer.

Regards,
Teodor

Not a problem~ I hope my answer answered both possibilities and please see my latest to Jim McDougall as I believe your facts about the Shashka are vital to a new aspect of curved swords in the region and there is a relevant and intriguing story from Zanzibar.

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
Thank you for the references to the Abbasid sword in Topkapi, and for continuing the most intriguing line of discussion on these swords. I very much like the way you are fielding responses to us individually and with personal attention, and appreciate your taking the time to do this as it is most informative. I am also enjoying learning more on the tribal groups you are describing to learn more on the fascinating history of Oman.

What has become most fascinating is to now realize that these forms of Omani sword are independant rather than developmentally connected, and I believe that Elgood had expressed in his book that the connections between them were somewhat tenuous. Actually the text noted that the origins of what we are terming the 'Omani short sword' were entirely unclear, though he noted several possibilities including Omani settlements in Baluchistan etc. (mentioned in discussions in 2009). Therefore I very much am in accord with your suggestions on the Abbasid origins, and delighted to learn more on this aspect.

What is now termed the 'long kattara' does indeed seem to have originated somewhat around the time of expanded Omani trade and colonial activity, and the increases in presence of trade blades in these regions. I am not sure that the cylindrical type hilt would have had to develop from a sword form in Africa, in fact this simple form would easily have developed independantly.
The fact that there is similarity in form or elements in a type of sword found in different spheres does not actually imply a developmental connection, as I have found, despite the compelling suggestion. With that being the case, it seems most likely that the 'long kattara' may have developed independantly, although if there is any connection to the Mandingo or Maasai guardless swords, I feel it would have been imported through trade materials oroginating with the Omani's. The sword was not the primary weapon with tribal groups in Africa in most cases, and became more commonly used post contact with traders from Europe and Arabia.

In Arabia, as I understand, the use of trade blades was quite prevalent from around 16th century onward, and of course many of these were German, though many came from India and Persia as well. By the later 17th and 18th centuries, the German blades had become more prevalent, and the spurious markings were of course commonly present usually suggesting quality to those acquiring them. As Teodor has noted, there was considerable contact through trade with Caucasian areas, and many blades from there had been marked with the 'running wolf' (of Germany) and the 'sickle marks' (N. Italy and Styria). Since many of these blades were of the curved form used on shashkas, it does seem that these occurred accordingly on the open kattara style hilts.

Also interesting is your note on the material used on the terrs shields, and mostly I have heard of rhino, but not of the whale hide. This would be quite understandable though, as there was a great deal of use of narwhal tusk in hilts in India, and the trade sources must have had these materials both available. Naturally the trade with Malabar in India provided probably these as well as certainly numbers of European blades which were available through Mahratta merchants.

All the very best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Ibrahiim,
Thank you for the references to the Abbasid sword in Topkapi, and for continuing the most intriguing line of discussion on these swords. I very much like the way you are fielding responses to us individually and with personal attention, and appreciate your taking the time to do this as it is most informative. I am also enjoying learning more on the tribal groups you are describing to learn more on the fascinating history of Oman.

What has become most fascinating is to now realize that these forms of Omani sword are independant rather than developmentally connected, and I believe that Elgood had expressed in his book that the connections between them were somewhat tenuous. Actually the text noted that the origins of what we are terming the 'Omani short sword' were entirely unclear, though he noted several possibilities including Omani settlements in Baluchistan etc. (mentioned in discussions in 2009). Therefore I very much am in accord with your suggestions on the Abbasid origins, and delighted to learn more on this aspect.

What is now termed the 'long kattara' does indeed seem to have originated somewhat around the time of expanded Omani trade and colonial activity, and the increases in presence of trade blades in these regions. I am not sure that the cylindrical type hilt would have had to develop from a sword form in Africa, in fact this simple form would easily have developed independantly.
The fact that there is similarity in form or elements in a type of sword found in different spheres does not actually imply a developmental connection, as I have found, despite the compelling suggestion. With that being the case, it seems most likely that the 'long kattara' may have developed independantly, although if there is any connection to the Mandingo or Maasai guardless swords, I feel it would have been imported through trade materials oroginating with the Omani's. The sword was not the primary weapon with tribal groups in Africa in most cases, and became more commonly used post contact with traders from Europe and Arabia.

In Arabia, as I understand, the use of trade blades was quite prevalent from around 16th century onward, and of course many of these were German, though many came from India and Persia as well. By the later 17th and 18th centuries, the German blades had become more prevalent, and the spurious markings were of course commonly present usually suggesting quality to those acquiring them. As Teodor has noted, there was considerable contact through trade with Caucasian areas, and many blades from there had been marked with the 'running wolf' (of Germany) and the 'sickle marks' (N. Italy and Styria). Since many of these blades were of the curved form used on shashkas, it does seem that these occurred accordingly on the open kattara style hilts.

Also interesting is your note on the material used on the terrs shields, and mostly I have heard of rhino, but not of the whale hide. This would be quite understandable though, as there was a great deal of use of narwhal tusk in hilts in India, and the trade sources must have had these materials both available. Naturally the trade with Malabar in India provided probably these as well as certainly numbers of European blades which were available through Mahratta merchants.

All the very best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, Thanks for another very substantial and supporting response. Teodor, as you rightly say, points out the Shashka link to the curved Sayf and refers quote; ...
"As for the curved sabers, I think I read somewhere in Elgood's book that in the mid 19th century, a lot of Caucasian shashka blades made its way into Southern Arabia (connected perhaps to the Circassian diaspora?) and were quickly given local hilts. When I look at the blade on mine, it certainly could have been taken from a shashka" .

I have several shaska blades on flat conical Omani hilts and others on falcon head shaped hilts. I wonder if the hawk style hilt also originated there in the Caucasus as well... Hunting with falcons although popular with the arabs may not be the reason for the hawkshead style on the shaska blades in Arabia... perhaps the entire Curved Sayf; blade and hilt, is Caucasus inspired?

On the subject of Omani Kattara Long. Here is an important passage from W. H. INGRAMS who was an official advisor to the British governor and unusually advisor to the Sultan of Zanzibar variously from about 1919 (published in 1931) in which he describes~

" The only performance or dance of the Arabs is the sword dance, RAZHA, accompanied by an orchestra of drums while the performers armed with swords and Jambiyya and small shields of rhinoceros hide indulge in mimic contests. leaping about and weilding their swords in a truly marvellous way".

However what I find amazing is...This was not a Zanzibari dance. W. H. Ingrams goes on to explain that this was only carried out by the Manga(those born in Muscat) not those Mwarcha (those born in Zanzibar).

Could this mean that the Omanis developed entirely separately a fighting system(long blade and buckler) with its own dancing martial activity totally unrelated to Zanzibar and that Zanzibar is an enormous red herring in the proceedings?

If that is the case we may need to look a lot earlier for the answers on Omani Kattara Long and Terrs Buckler Shield!

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Jim, Thanks for another very substantial and supporting response. Teodor, as you rightly say, points out the Shashka link to the curved Sayf and refers quote; ...
"As for the curved sabers, I think I read somewhere in Elgood's book that in the mid 19th century, a lot of Caucasian shashka blades made its way into Southern Arabia (connected perhaps to the Circassian diaspora?) and were quickly given local hilts. When I look at the blade on mine, it certainly could have been taken from a shashka" .

I have several shaska blades on flat conical Omani hilts and others on falcon head shaped hilts. I wonder if the hawk style hilt also originated there in the Caucasus as well... Hunting with falcons although popular with the arabs may not be the reason for the hawkshead style on the shaska blades in Arabia... perhaps the entire Curved Sayf; blade and hilt, is Caucasus inspired?

On the subject of Omani Kattara Long. Here is an important passage from W. H. INGRAMS who was an official advisor to the British governor and unusually advisor to the Sultan of Zanzibar variously from about 1919 (published in 1931) in which he describes~

" The only performance or dance of the Arabs is the sword dance, RAZHA, accompanied by an orchestra of drums while the performers armed with swords and Jambiyya and small shields of rhinoceros hide indulge in mimic contests. leaping about and weilding their swords in a truly marvellous way".

However what I find amazing is...This was not a Zanzibari dance. W. H. Ingrams goes on to explain that this was only carried out by the Manga(those born in Muscat) not those Mwarcha (those born in Zanzibar).

Could this mean that the Omanis developed entirely separately a fighting system(long blade and buckler) with its own dancing martial activity totally unrelated to Zanzibar and that Zanzibar is an enormous red herring in the proceedings?

If that is the case we may need to look a lot earlier for the answers on Omani Kattara Long and Terrs Buckler Shield!

Omani Kattara .
The earliest picture I can find which goes back to this forum in 2004 is attached showing an 1860 slave trader Tipu Sultan with a slightly curved Sayf on a long hilt with holed pommel looking like it is an antique (but date of origin unproven!! )

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Omani Kattara .
The earliest picture I can find which goes back to this forum in 2004 is attached showing an 1860 slave trader Tipu Sultan with a slightly curved Sayf on a long hilt with holed pommel looking like it is an antique (but date of origin unproven!! )

Heres the photo~

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
I'm puzzled by the reference to 1860 slave trader "Tipu Sultan' ? What post was that in? The sword appears to be a military sabre blade (carrying rings) and probably corresponding blade with the Omani type hilt. Where was this slave trader said to be operating, or where was the photo from.

Also, what is meant by the 'hawkshead' hilt ? Is there an illustration? In any case the curved sabre is by no means from Caucasian ancestry in Arabia though the trade blades from there did come in through various means.
The use of some of these Caucasian blades is mentioned by Elgood in "Arms and Armour of Arabia", and the preference for Persian blades is also noted. We have discussed many times the use of Persian trade blades on Arab sabres. Many of the straight blades are known to have arrived through Indian trade contacts.

The martial swordplay/'dancing' is also described by Sir Richard Burton in 1884, and as noted is also known in India, particularly in the case of use of the pata in which deep slashing moves are made. The Mahrattas distinctly favored slashing moves, despising the thrust. In Khevsuria, in the Caucasus, these dance type moves leaping from crouched position and using bucklers are key to the well known duels practiced well into the 20th century.

I am inclined to think that the guardless Omani hilt developed in the Arabian Peninsula, and not in Zanzibar, nor was it influenced by the swords from the African interior. While the importance of Zanzibar was considerable as a trade and center including slaving commerce, I feel that it was much more receptive as far as weaponry than it was innovative, and the weapons in use there were an amalgam of many forms used by the many traders frwquenting there. It is known that later in the 19th century many makers there did produce swords of established forms using trade blades and copying styles from numerous influences. The well known 'Zanzibar' type of 'nimcha' hilts is essentially the Moroccan sa'if type hilt with a perpandicular loop on the guard (as seen in Buttin, 1933).

All the very best,
Jim

[A.alnakkas]

By hawkshead hilt, Ibrahim means the arabic Karabella. These are often flagged as yemeni but lately am considering that they might be omani or shared by both regions.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Ibrahiim,
I'm puzzled by the reference to 1860 slave trader "Tipu Sultan' ? What post was that in? The sword appears to be a military sabre blade (carrying rings) and probably corresponding blade with the Omani type hilt. Where was this slave trader said to be operating, or where was the photo from.

Also, what is meant by the 'hawkshead' hilt ? Is there an illustration? In any case the curved sabre is by no means from Caucasian ancestry in Arabia though the trade blades from there did come in through various means.
The use of some of these Caucasian blades is mentioned by Elgood in "Arms and Armour of Arabia", and the preference for Persian blades is also noted. We have discussed many times the use of Persian trade blades on Arab sabres. Many of the straight blades are known to have arrived through Indian trade contacts.

The martial swordplay/'dancing' is also described by Sir Richard Burton in 1884, and as noted is also known in India, particularly in the case of use of the pata in which deep slashing moves are made. The Mahrattas distinctly favored slashing moves, despising the thrust. In Khevsuria, in the Caucasus, these dance type moves leaping from crouched position and using bucklers are key to the well known duels practiced well into the 20th century.

I am inclined to think that the guardless Omani hilt developed in the Arabian Peninsula, and not in Zanzibar, nor was it influenced by the swords from the African interior. While the importance of Zanzibar was considerable as a trade and center including slaving commerce, I feel that it was much more receptive as far as weaponry than it was innovative, and the weapons in use there were an amalgam of many forms used by the many traders frwquenting there. It is known that later in the 19th century many makers there did produce swords of established forms using trade blades and copying styles from numerous influences. The well known 'Zanzibar' type of 'nimcha' hilts is essentially the Moroccan sa'if type hilt with a perpandicular loop on the guard (as seen in Buttin, 1933).

All the very best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, My mistake in calling him Tipu Sultan (sultans on the brain!!)His real name (tipu tip) was; hamed bin mohammed a swahili which is good to punch into google search ~ The greatest slaver on the African East Coast and controlling about 2 million square miles of territory. posted 11-24-2004 14:05 ( picture 7.) The sword is rigged on a scabbard that would hang at the long carry usually seen on scimitar and shamshir varieties... Anyway it is the hilt which intrigues..

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







Tippu Tip
Tippu Tip or Tib (1837 - June 14, 1905), real name Hamad bin Muḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Muḥammad bin Sa‘īd al-Murghabī, (Arabic: حمد بن محمد بن جمعة بن رجب بن محمد بن سعيد المرجبي‎), was a Swahili-Zanzibari trader of mixed descent. He was famously known as Tippu Tib after an eye disease which made him blind. A notorious slave trader, plantation owner and governor, who worked for a succession of sultans of Zanzibar, he led many trading expeditions into east-central Africa, involving the slave trade and ivory trade. He constructed profitable trading posts that reached deep into Central Africa.

He built himself a trading empire that he then translated into clove plantations on Zanzibar. Abdul Sheriff reports that when he left for his twelve years of "empire building" on the mainland, he had no plantations of his own. However, by 1895, he had acquired "seven shambas [plantations] and 10,000 slaves."[1]

His mother, Bint Habib bin Bushir, was a Muscat Arab of the ruling class. His father and paternal grandfather were coastal Swahili who had taken part in the earliest trading expeditions to the interior. His paternal great-grandmother, wife of Rajab bin Mohammed bin Said el Murgebi was the daughter of Juma bin Mohammed el Nebhani, a member of a respected Muscat (Oman) family, and an African woman from the village of Mbwa Maji, a small village south of what would later become the German capital of Dar es Salaam.[2]

He met and helped several famous western explorers of the African continent, including Henry Morton Stanley. Between 1884 and 1887, el Murgebi claimed the Eastern Congo for himself and for the Sultan of Zanzibar, Bargash bin Said el Busaidi. In spite of his position as protector of Zanzibar's interests in Congo, he managed to maintain good relations with the Europeans. When, in August 1886, fighting broke out between Arabs (Swahili) and the representatives of King Leopold II of Belgium at Stanley Falls, el Murgebi went to the Belgian consul at Zanzibar to assure him of his "good intentions." Although he was still a force in Central African politics, he could see by 1886 that power in the region was shifting. In early 1887, Stanley arrived in Zanzibar and proposed that Tippu Tip be made governor of the Stanley Falls District in the Congo Free State. Both Leopold and Sultan Barghash bin Said agreed and on February 24, 1887, Hamed bin Mohammed el Murgebi accepted.[3]

Around 1890/91, he returned to Zanzibar where he retired. He wrote his autobiography, which is the first example of this literary genre in Swahili. El Murgebi wrote his autobiography in Swahili in Arabic script. Dr. Heinrich Brode, who knew him in Zanzibar, transcribed the manuscript into Roman script and translated it into German. It was subsequently translated into English and published in Britain in 1907.

He died June 13, 1905, of malaria (according to Brode) in his home in Stone Town, the main town on the island of Zanzibar.

I have put up two fotos one is Tipu in the photo in the 1860s with the Kattara long handle on what looks like a kattara or sayf and the other a sketch of Sultan Barghash later in about 1895 annoyingly sporting the Old Omani Sword with turned down Quillons !!!


Hawkshead hilt ~ Possibly from the hilt known as Karabella and often simply leather covered in Arabian swords. It occurred to me that Shaska have similar hilts and that perhaps the hilt transferred at the same time as the blade in this variant. It would make sense that this short curved weapon was used aboard Omani ships however I cant prove that. (yet) I have put up photos of the curved smaller sayf with the hawk or falcons head simply leather covered.

Reference your "I am inclined to think that the guardless Omani hilt developed in the Arabian Peninsula, and not in Zanzibar, nor was it influenced by the swords from the African interior".

I agree but I cant quite prove it. The quote I made I think is important from the 1931 publication stating that the dance routine or "Razha" seen in Zanzibar was Omani so we look today for a similar terminology and sure enough the Omani Sword dance is called RAZHA ! That should be Game Set and Match !! but it doesnt put a suitable date on the sword entering use in Oman.

If there is no Zanzibar/ African link when did the kattara long enter use in Oman? It certainly entered folklore in the form of a martial dance and that points to a very early date. I would suggest between 9th and 13 th century ~ and on the Oman coast (BECAUSE COASTAL OMAN WOULD BRING THE RHINO HIDE SHIELDS MATERIAL FROM AFRICAN SOURCES AS OPPOSED TO IT BEING BROUGHT BY THE INTERIOR OF OMAN ~ THE TWO FACTIONS "THE INTERIOR AND THE COASTAL BELT" BEING MORE OR LESS AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER CONTINUOUSLY.

I have the Short Omani Battle Sword frozen in a time warp in the Omani interior, Abbasid influeced, entering use about 850 A.D. and remaining in use at least up to the 1890s when it was sketched on the waist of Sultan Bargash. (picture attached)

Conclusions.
The influence of Caucasus blades may have also included handle design on shorter curved sayf likely to have been used on board the very active Omani merchant and Naval vessels.
I also conclude that the Omani Long Kattara could pre date estimates by 4 centuries in view of the estimated time that folklore would need for the sword and shield dance to be imprinted and that the two systems were in use variously and together until the early 1900s. as defined in the pictures attached.
It remains to be uncovered as to wether the long curved sayf was used in the same fashion as the kattara since it is also seen with the same handle... The long flat connical hilt and pommel with a hole..

Shukran Jim

Ibrahiim


Reference your "The well known 'Zanzibar' type of 'nimcha' hilts" For years there has been a muddle over these hilts to often attributed to Moroccan.. see Antony North Islamic Arms p 29 ~ I have seen some almost identical but now attributed to Zanzibar.

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Heres the photo~

I see the pics did not transfer with the "quote" Please refer to post #21 dated 18/5 by Ibrahiim
This is the pic I was refering to when I commented on the post by ARCHER. I do not see any hole in the hilt of this sword, just the knob as per the Mandingo sword................... so what are we really looking at here? The person in the pic wears a dagger (presumably Omani) of the saidi hilted type. Are we now saying that the sword he holds is in fact a Kattara, and if so is the hilt of the Mandingo type?
Regarding blade types found on Middle Eastern swords: The (then) colonial powers were very active in the area for a long period of time, and as a result numerious sword blades found there way to the area as "trade blades", and were hilted in the various countries with the local style of hilt. Ethiopia is a great example of this activity, where blades from all over europe appear on local swords.
Why should Oman be any different, particularly as the Omanis were well known a great seafarers and must have travelled great distances?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I see the pics did not transfer with the "quote" Please refer to post #21 dated 18/5 by Ibrahiim
This is the pic I was refering to when I commented on the post by ARCHER. I do not see any hole in the hilt of this sword, just the knob as per the Mandingo sword................... so what are we really looking at here? The person in the pic wears a dagger (presumably Omani) of the saidi hilted type. Are we now saying that the sword he holds is in fact a Kattara, and if so is the hilt of the Mandingo type?
Regarding blade types found on Middle Eastern swords: The (then) colonial powers were very active in the area for a long period of time, and as a result numerious sword blades found there way to the area as "trade blades", and were hilted in the various countries with the local style of hilt. Ethiopia is a great example of this activity, where blades from all over europe appear on local swords.
Why should Oman be any different, particularly as the Omanis were well known a great seafarers and must have travelled great distances?

Salaams, No not at all Mendingo; The sword at #21 carried by the great slave trader Tippu Tip and photographed in the 1860s is a long Kattara hilt on what some people may call a curved kattara but which is also called a Sayf in Oman. Although we cannot see the blade it can be seen that the scabbard is curved and that it has rings so that it can be slung in the low mount thus favoured by VIPs even then as a badge of office. I can see the hole in the pommel on photo one at # 21.

What I suggest is that perhaps :

1.Such was the influence of Oman in the east of Africa that some effect may have occured to sway the design of African swords e.g. from the Omani Kattara hilt to the Mendingo hilt. This is based on the slave trade control by Omani traders over huge swathes of Africa etc.

2. The African hilt "at some point" swayed the design of the kattara Omani hilt ~ something I find difficult to believe.

3. That there was no influence from anywhere on the Omani Kattara design and the Omanis dreamed up the design of hilt, blade and buckler plus the war dance "The Razha" independently.

I have to say that I am sold so far on point 3 but I am open to ideas !

On the point of colonial power; it is true that European influence did inspire a lot of African swords however not many of, for example, the typical swords of Ethiopia imported from Germany, appeared in Oman because they were rigid and pointed... The Omanis used, were brought up with and favoured the Kattara system. Luckhouse and Gunter straight german blades were useless with a Buckler and even cut back would not have found much use perhaps as ships swords opposed to the shaska style also adopted in Oman... not in Oman anyway. In Ethiopia however the full length import was ~ superb!
I have two Luckhouse and Gunters mounted on Tulvar handles but Ive seen no Omani variants yet !!

Regards,
Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.

p.s. The chap wearing the Khanjar and sword is Sultan Barghash of Zanzibar. Yes that khanjar is the family traditional "Al Bu Saidi".