Sword of the Prophet Mohammed

[Lew]

Originally Posted by rasdan

About the link: Thank you Lew.

How can we be sure that these are indeed the Prophet's sword?

Rasdan

There is no real way to verify that these swords belong to the Prophet? Some of them do look to be the proper style for that specific period others on the other hand do seem of a later period style but I am not an expert.

[rasdan]

Nathaniel, Thanks for the info.

Lew, I actually have no knowledge whatsoever on the shape or anything about these swords. Maybe, I didn't look enough, but I didn't found any information on these swords as how they made it to the museum etc.

With so many funny informations and "facts" around, I don't know if these swords can be positively, undeniably verified to be the prophet's sword. But, again, I didn't take much effort researching.

[ALEX]

Agree with Lew, there is no way to verify. As with any other antique attribution, the historical accounts often serve as "provenance". From "The Topkapi Palace" book: "according to historians, the Prophet had nine swords. He gave one he called Zulfikar to the Caliph Ali. Another sword was left to him by his father. Only two of his swords are in Topkapi Palace...They displayed along with the mantle in the Throne room. Another weapon belonging to the Prophet is a bow, is also on display".
The sword shown on the first top picture is the sword of the Caliph Ali, and bears "Zulfikar" inscription: "No better hero than Ali, no better sword than Zulfikar". However, this sword has one point, not split like Zulfikar, so there is no evidence it belonged to the Prophet.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Lew

Rasdan

There is no real way to verify that these swords belong to the Prophet? Some of them do look to be the proper style for that specific period others on the other hand do seem of a later period style but I am not an expert.

Lew,

Thank you for removing the bad link. That is what I was curious to hear if the different swords where consistent with the style of the time period. Which particular swords are are consistent with the time period?

[Lew]

I would say the straight wide bladed ones. The thinner curved ones are probably of a later period. The one that allegedly belonged to King David is questionable a sword of that length would have been almost impossible to forge since the battle between David and Goliath took place at the begining of the Iron age in the mid east and the smiths would not have had the technology to manufacture such a long blade. Infact the weapons were more likely made of bronze since this time period was on the cusp between the late Bronze age and early Iron age.

[Dom]

at my first visit to Topkapi,
I was a little embarrassed to see artifacts with some questionable attributions for instance
- the wooden soup pot of Abraham
- the magic stick of Moses, with what he opened the Red Sea water's

from that, my doubt about all attributions in general was done,
I came to paid a look for the objects, but ignored the comments

since, at my last visit, I saw that the most critical objects have been withdraw,
but first impression still yet valid

when you want to prove too much, you do not prove anything

any way, the edged weapons exhibited at Topkapi are very attractive
their origins at my point of view are very questionable,
because based on religious faith, and not on historical analyses

à +

Dom

[Nathaniel]

I thought I would post the nine swords so incase the link posted was lost (cite: http://ibnulazim.wordpress.com/2008...f-muhammad-saw/ )


al-Ma’thur

al-Ma’thur, also known as “Ma’thur al-Fijar” is the sword which was owned by the prophet Muhammad before he received his first revelations in Mecca. It was willed to him by his father. The prophet Muhammad migrated with the sword from Mecca to Medina, and the sword remained with him until it was transferred, along with other war equipment, to Ali b. Abi Talib.

The blade is 99 cm in length. The handle is of gold in the shape of two serpents, and is encrusted with emeralds and turquoise. Near the handle is a Kufic inscription saying: ‘Abdallah b. ‘Abd al-Muttalib. Today the sword is housed in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).

[Nathaniel]

al-Battar

The al-Battar sword was taken by the prophet Muhammad as booty from the Banu Qaynaqa. It is called the “sword of the prophets” and is inscribed in Arabic with the names of David, Solomon, Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Zechariah, John, Jesus, and Muhammad. It also has a drawing of King David when cut off the head of Goliath to whom this sword had belonged originally. The sword also features an inscription which has been identified as Nabataean writing.

The blade of the sword is 101 cm in length. It is preserved in the Topkapi Museum, Istanbul. Some report that it is this sword that Jesus will use when he returns to Earth to defeat the anti-Christ Dajjal. Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).

[Nathaniel]

Dhu al-Faqar

Dhu al-Faqar is the name of this sword, taken as booty by the prophet Muhammad at the Battle of Badr. It is reported that the prophet Muhammad gave the sword to Ali b. Abi Talib, and that Ali returned from the Battle of Uhud covered with blood from his hands to his shoulders, having Dhu al-Faqar with him. Many sources report that this sword remained with Ali b. Abi Talib and his family, and that the sword had two points, perhaps represented here by the two lines ingraved on the blade.

Photograph taken from Muhammad Hasan Muhammad al-Tihami, Suyuf al-Rasul wa ‘uddah harbi-hi (Cairo: Hijr, 1312/1992).

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Dom

at my first visit to Topkapi,
I was a little embarrassed to see artifacts with some questionable attributions for instance
- the wooden soup pot of Abraham
- the magic stick of Moses, with what he opened the Red Sea water's

from that, my doubt about all attributions in general was done,
I came to paid a look for the objects, but ignored the comments

since, at my last visit, I saw that the most critical objects have been withdraw,
but first impression still yet valid

when you want to prove too much, you do not prove anything

any way, the edged weapons exhibited at Topkapi are very attractive
their origins at my point of view are very questionable,
because based on religious faith, and not on historical analyses

à +

Dom

Dom,

Thank you for sharing your person experience. It is fantastic to hear from someone who has actually viewed these items.

Irregardless whether fact or fabrication this is not something uncommon to many religions, institutions, regimes, etc.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Lew

I would say the straight wide bladed ones. The thinner curved ones are probably of a later period. The one that allegedly belonged to King David is questionable a sword of that length would have been almost impossible to forge since the battle between David and Goliath took place at the begining of the Iron age in the mid east and the smiths would not have had the technology to manufacture such a long blade. Infact the weapons were more likely made of bronze since this time period was on the cusp between the late Bronze age and early Iron age.

Lew,

Thanks for the information. Logical as most societies started with straight wider blades and as metallurgic technology evolved, increased length and curve developed.

[Henk]

I have to agree with Dom.

I also visited the Topkapi palace and enjoyed the exposition and the wonderfull weapons. But those who put up the exposition had a great imagination in my opinion.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

My only guide: I would have doubts about any sword/weapon, were it to be decorated with gold etc., as being attributable to the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.

Best,

[ALEX]

Originally Posted by Henk

I have to agree with Dom.

I also visited the Topkapi palace and enjoyed the exposition and the wonderfull weapons. But those who put up the exposition had a great imagination in my opinion.

Very true. I recently visited Istanbul Military Museum and saw many examples of this, such as shamshir with a common "Velayet Shah Abbas/Amel AssadUllah" cartouche, described as "personal sword of Shah Abbas himself". What's more, there is a small collection of Yemeni jambiyas, all identified as Ottoman weapons. Naturally, the purpose of most museums is to impress the tourists:-)

[Dom]

Originally Posted by ALEX

I recently visited Istanbul Military Museum

Hi Alex
very well, you'll be the right man, for the right purpose, to confirm from where I took those pics ! .. Istanbul Military Museum or Topkapi, I dunno any more

enjoy

à +

Dom