Vast amount of early 16th.c lead shot found in Denmark

fernando · 28th April 2011, 02:26 PM

Hi Per,
When did Riddarholm ship sink?
Actually we can read that cannister shot was used during the thirty years war, when Swedish King Gustavus launched his tactical innovations in the battle of Breitenfeld 1631.

" ... Along the same line of rate of fire thinking, he also placed small cannons, or so called infantry guns among the units. These were mobile, lightweight three-pound brass cannon, by some called the first field artillery. Loaded with canister or grapeshot, they were devastating, like huge shotguns capable of gutting an opponent's formations ..."

This is an interesting reality as, if you browse the Net or consult 'common' artillery books on this type of shot, you will find that the current coment is that cannister (case) and grapeshot were widely used during the 18-19th centuries.

On the other hand, there is an early codex (14th century?) in the Paris National Library, with a drawing showing a mounted man (Eques sclopitaris)firing two projectiles in a simultaneous manner, from his handgun (sclopitus or scopitus). Somewhere in this forum there is a thread where this situation is quoted (Michl-Matchlock either the author or involved in it), with a picture most probably larger and better than this one shown here:

.

Per Lillelund Jensen · 29th April 2011, 12:25 AM

Hi Fernando
The Ridderholms ship: i dont have the book handy here, but its a late 15th.century ship. The cannon is typical forged construction with chamber in the back. It could have sunk in the early 16th.c.

The Canister: Maybe its just my bad english. The barrel holds a wooden container, a sort of kartesche full of flint pieces/stones.

The very small leadshot from the castle findings (6mm) is just an enigma to me, thats why i thought of maybe a kartesche?? hope someone here can shed light on it.

Also i dont know how common findings of medieval and early 16th .c lead balls is??

Regards
Per

fernando · 29th April 2011, 05:49 PM

By the way Per,
Have you followed this thread?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13586

kisak · 30th April 2011, 02:03 PM

Here is a pic of some of the canisters from the shipwreck outside of Riddarholmen. Taken at the Medieval Museum in Stockholm.

fernando · 1st May 2011, 03:05 PM

Fascinating !
Thanks for the accurate pictures, Kisak

So they were conical ?

The ammunition looks like stone fragments ?!
How did these devices keep their direction?

kisak · 1st May 2011, 07:53 PM

They were indeed conical, and filled with sharp shards of flint. According to the museum description the idea was for the wooden canister to remain in one piece during the flight, and then shatter as it hit, sending the stone shards flying all over the place. I would guess that accuracy and effective range were both quite poor.

The pictures here show one of the cannons from the wreck. They also had another similar cannon on display from the same wreck, with the same stock, breech-loading, and rack of spare chambers as this one, but with a smaller calibre. The fourth picture shows some chain and bar shot, also from the same wreck.

fernando · 1st May 2011, 08:12 PM

Excelent info and pictures, Kisak.
Thanks for sharing them.
(Oh, i love these cannons

)

28th April 2011, 02:26 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Per, When did Riddarholm ship sink? Actually we can read that cannister shot was used during the thirty years war, when Swedish King Gustavus launched his tactical innovations in the battle of Breitenfeld 1631. " ... Along the same line of rate of fire thinking, he also placed small cannons, or so called infantry guns among the units. These were mobile, lightweight three-pound brass cannon, by some called the first field artillery. Loaded with canister or grapeshot, they were devastating, like huge shotguns capable of gutting an opponent's formations ..." This is an interesting reality as, if you browse the Net or consult 'common' artillery books on this type of shot, you will find that the current coment is that cannister (case) and grapeshot were widely used during the 18-19th centuries. On the other hand, there is an early codex (14th century?) in the Paris National Library, with a drawing showing a mounted man (Eques sclopitaris)firing two projectiles in a simultaneous manner, from his handgun (sclopitus or scopitus). Somewhere in this forum there is a thread where this situation is quoted (Michl-Matchlock either the author or involved in it), with a picture most probably larger and better than this one shown here: . Attached Images

30th April 2011, 02:03 PM	#4
kisak Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 182	Here is a pic of some of the canisters from the shipwreck outside of Riddarholmen. Taken at the Medieval Museum in Stockholm. Attached Images

1st May 2011, 07:53 PM	#6
kisak Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 182	They were indeed conical, and filled with sharp shards of flint. According to the museum description the idea was for the wooden canister to remain in one piece during the flight, and then shatter as it hit, sending the stone shards flying all over the place. I would guess that accuracy and effective range were both quite poor. The pictures here show one of the cannons from the wreck. They also had another similar cannon on display from the same wreck, with the same stock, breech-loading, and rack of spare chambers as this one, but with a smaller calibre. The fourth picture shows some chain and bar shot, also from the same wreck. Attached Images

29th April 2011, 12:25 AM	#2
Per Lillelund Jensen Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 5	Hi Fernando The Ridderholms ship: i dont have the book handy here, but its a late 15th.century ship. The cannon is typical forged construction with chamber in the back. It could have sunk in the early 16th.c. The Canister: Maybe its just my bad english. The barrel holds a wooden container, a sort of kartesche full of flint pieces/stones. The very small leadshot from the castle findings (6mm) is just an enigma to me, thats why i thought of maybe a kartesche?? hope someone here can shed light on it. Also i dont know how common findings of medieval and early 16th .c lead balls is?? Regards Per

29th April 2011, 05:49 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	By the way Per, Have you followed this thread? http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13586

1st May 2011, 03:05 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Fascinating ! Thanks for the accurate pictures, Kisak So they were conical ? The ammunition looks like stone fragments ?! How did these devices keep their direction?

1st May 2011, 08:12 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Excelent info and pictures, Kisak. Thanks for sharing them. (Oh, i love these cannons )