Chamba short sword for comment

Tim Simmons · 22nd April 2011, 08:20 PM

While on the subject of Chamba I would like to clear something up. I have always known these two items were West African and now I can show clear link in form and function. Scroll down and click on "Mumye Iron Collar"-

http://www.coincoin.com/seXX2.htm#IRON

I have added the picture anyway.

Martin Lubojacky · 22nd April 2011, 10:20 PM

Hello Tim,

I saw this swords with bovine horn guard in Maroua and Rhumsiki in the Extreme North Cameroon.
The similar torques I have are allegedly from Lake Chad region and they were used as ceremonial means of payment, when the groom wanted to "buy" daughter of chieftain: He gave cattle to the cheeftain´s marshal and received the necklaces. then he brought the necklaces to the cheeftain and received the bride (cheeftain´s daughter). Cheeftain returned the necklaces back to marshal..... Nobody confirmed me this, just the selling person said (maybe fairy tale...)
Regards,
Martin

Tim Simmons · 23rd April 2011, 08:11 AM

Thanks Martin, I googled images for Maroua and Rhumsiki, fabulous so beautiful. My bag is packed just waiting for the money

one day.

Martin Lubojacky · 24th April 2011, 07:56 PM

Tim, I am happy destiny lead me to Rhumsiki. I am sending you one photo from the trip in 2008. I was invited to the hut in the village and the iron shield with throwing knife were under the roof above the fireplace (black from ash). The old man on the photo refused to sell them, but he allowed me to take a photo. Unfortunately, it is too much black (I am probably not good photographer)
regards,
Martin

Iain · 25th April 2011, 06:36 PM

Been a busy few days, my apologies for not getting back to this thread sooner.

Martin,

Thank you so much for the photos of your colleague's sword as well as the fantastic image of the Mandarawa man with shield and throwing knife, it is like stepping back in time to look at that photo.

Regarding your colleague's sword, it seems to me that this probably never had a guard and is more in the Tebu style. Their seems to be two main forms, the rounded tip, thick blade and round pommel of your example and my smaller Chamba piece and this pointed, skull crusher pommel type that your colleague has - and just to confuse things a combination of both styles in Tim's sword.

Tim,

I had seen the bovine guards being labeled Kirdi before - actually I think in an older thread, perhaps IDed by Luc. But with so many groups tightly backed into this general area... This image I think illustrates it all rather well. From wikipedia, the ethnic groups of the extreme northern province.

I wonder if generally speaking the arm swords and lighter blades are the effect of Fulani influence? It certainly seems to be a slightly newer development and as Martin noted, these older heaver blades seem totally unsuitable for this method of carriage.

I too would very much like to travel to this region. I was also glad to read that tourism is being promoted in Rhumsiki including blacksmithing. I'd be interested to see any other photos of the area you might like to share Martin.

Best,

Iain

Martin Lubojacky · 26th April 2011, 11:49 PM

Iain,

Except of this one I have the rest in Prague, so when I arrive I will post some (but this is just people and landscape)
Regards,
Martin

Yvain · 12th April 2020, 09:52 PM

For the archives, found this one that went through a sale auction in 2009.

Described as a Kirdi short sword, original description below :

"Dating: circa 1900
Provenence: Camerun
Lama dritta, con punta incurvata, a due fili, costolata al centro; elso in ferro a "V", pomo a fungo, impugnatura in legno rivestita di trecciola in cuoio. Fodero in legno rivestito in cuoio e pelle di rettile.
Illustrata in "Islamic and Native Weapons of Colonial Africa 1800-1960" di Anthony C. Tirri, pag. 431 ill. 6-11."

22nd April 2011, 08:20 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	While on the subject of Chamba I would like to clear something up. I have always known these two items were West African and now I can show clear link in form and function. Scroll down and click on "Mumye Iron Collar"- http://www.coincoin.com/seXX2.htm#IRON I have added the picture anyway. Attached Images

22nd April 2011, 10:20 PM	#2
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Hello Tim, I saw this swords with bovine horn guard in Maroua and Rhumsiki in the Extreme North Cameroon. The similar torques I have are allegedly from Lake Chad region and they were used as ceremonial means of payment, when the groom wanted to "buy" daughter of chieftain: He gave cattle to the cheeftain´s marshal and received the necklaces. then he brought the necklaces to the cheeftain and received the bride (cheeftain´s daughter). Cheeftain returned the necklaces back to marshal..... Nobody confirmed me this, just the selling person said (maybe fairy tale...) Regards, Martin Attached Images

24th April 2011, 07:56 PM	#4
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Tim, I am happy destiny lead me to Rhumsiki. I am sending you one photo from the trip in 2008. I was invited to the hut in the village and the iron shield with throwing knife were under the roof above the fireplace (black from ash). The old man on the photo refused to sell them, but he allowed me to take a photo. Unfortunately, it is too much black (I am probably not good photographer) regards, Martin Attached Images

12th April 2020, 09:52 PM	#7
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 179	For the archives, found this one that went through a sale auction in 2009. Described as a Kirdi short sword, original description below : "Dating: circa 1900 Provenence: Camerun Lama dritta, con punta incurvata, a due fili, costolata al centro; elso in ferro a "V", pomo a fungo, impugnatura in legno rivestita di trecciola in cuoio. Fodero in legno rivestito in cuoio e pelle di rettile. Illustrata in "Islamic and Native Weapons of Colonial Africa 1800-1960" di Anthony C. Tirri, pag. 431 ill. 6-11." Attached Images

23rd April 2011, 08:11 AM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	Thanks Martin, I googled images for Maroua and Rhumsiki, fabulous so beautiful. My bag is packed just waiting for the money one day.

25th April 2011, 06:36 PM	#5
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Been a busy few days, my apologies for not getting back to this thread sooner. Martin, Thank you so much for the photos of your colleague's sword as well as the fantastic image of the Mandarawa man with shield and throwing knife, it is like stepping back in time to look at that photo. Regarding your colleague's sword, it seems to me that this probably never had a guard and is more in the Tebu style. Their seems to be two main forms, the rounded tip, thick blade and round pommel of your example and my smaller Chamba piece and this pointed, skull crusher pommel type that your colleague has - and just to confuse things a combination of both styles in Tim's sword. Tim, I had seen the bovine guards being labeled Kirdi before - actually I think in an older thread, perhaps IDed by Luc. But with so many groups tightly backed into this general area... This image I think illustrates it all rather well. From wikipedia, the ethnic groups of the extreme northern province. I wonder if generally speaking the arm swords and lighter blades are the effect of Fulani influence? It certainly seems to be a slightly newer development and as Martin noted, these older heaver blades seem totally unsuitable for this method of carriage. I too would very much like to travel to this region. I was also glad to read that tourism is being promoted in Rhumsiki including blacksmithing. I'd be interested to see any other photos of the area you might like to share Martin. Best, Iain

26th April 2011, 11:49 PM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	Iain, Except of this one I have the rest in Prague, so when I arrive I will post some (but this is just people and landscape) Regards, Martin