Before the Ball: Clod Shot of 1375 - the Earliest Lead Gun Ammunition!

[Matchlock]

I have seen some of these over the decades but do not own any.

m

[stekemest]

How long were those clod shots used? I own a piece that could date from the first half of the 15th century, would that fit?
I also have some of those lead balls filled with a piece of iron or stone. That was done because lead was very expensive.

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by stekemest

How long were those clod shots used? I own a piece that could date from the first half of the 15th century, would that fit?
I also have some of those lead balls filled with a piece of iron or stone. That was done because lead was very expensive.

Oh yes, that's possible.

Although lead was expensive, I rather tend to believe that the method of including gravel was the easiest way to generate maximum loss on the enemy's side - it acted like shot.

Founding lead balls with a stone or iron core mostly seems to have been done for use with brass or bronze barrels, in order to protect these softer materials.

I'd also like to promote the following link here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...038#post120038


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

The idea was to load the gun barrel as follows:


- 1. insert the usual amount of gunpowder

- 2. insert the first piece of clod shot

- 3. repeat step 1

- 4. repeat step two etc.


When the maximum amount of powder clod shot, dependig on the length and strongness of the barrel, had been inserted, fine priming powder would have to be rinsed thru the central holes in the clod pieces, and all its way down to the lowest piece of shot, until the central hole of the top clod piece was filled with powder.

Then the barrel was ignited from the muzzle (!) either by a clamp holding a smoldering length of matchcord or by a red hot iron - see original illustrations of 1411! - , and all shots were fired in rapid succession ...


As D.R. Baxter has shown in his unparalleled work Superimposed Load Firearms 1360-1860, Hongkong, 1966 (warning: extremely rare to find and extremely extensive as well!), the very same system remained in use throughout the muzzleloading area ...



And now there is a piece of 14th century high tech for the earliest superimposed load system - in my collection!
It is the only known existing specimen of its kind worldwide ...


The watercolors are from Johannes Hartlieb, Buch der Kriegskunst, dated 1411, Austrian National Library ÖNB, cod.vind. 3069.


When wondering at the seemingly wrong scales of the shot, please remember that the authors of Medieval manuscripts tended to exaggerate in size the most important details that often were rather tiny in reality!



Best,
Michael, proud as a peacock!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Michael, proud as a peacock!

Which peacock variant ... Bavarian ?

[Matchlock]

At least that's my guess, my friend ...

m

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

The idea was to load the gun barrel as follows:


- 1. insert the usual amount of gunpowder

- 2. insert the first piece of clod shot

- 3. repeat step 1

- 4. repeat step two etc.

Hello, my Dear Friend. I think that You are absolutely right! We have really strong proof for this way of loading in Trattato d'architettura Giorgio Martini. It's about 1478-1481

[Matchlock]

Thank you so much, Alexender,


For sharing this unique Late-Gothic source of illustration!

As you mentioned, it is datable to ca. 1480, so the use of balls is shown, documenting a remarkable step forward compared to 14th c. clod shot.

On the other hand, of course, the loading procedure was all the more difficult as it required employing a very special thin iron stick to sort of center-string all the balls thru their holes in vertical succession!

Eight superimposed loads are depicted by Martini, which doubtlessly meant 'rapid automatic fire' as these shots must have been discharged within a short span of time of ca. 4-6 seconds once the foremost/upper had been ignited ... imagine such a dramatic psychologic impact when everyone else only had one single shot in their guns! Aiming the muzzle in the direction of the opponing army must have sufficed to wield a horrible amount of excessive firing power.



For clarity, please allow me to repost that 'photoshopped' image from your clever input!


Best wishes,
Michael/Mikhail

[Matchlock]

Together with the famous Tannenbergbüchse (Tannenberg gun barrel, now preserved in the Germanisches Nationalmuseum Nürnberg), an iron ramrod and a piece of iron clod shot were found, the latter with a central hole!

As I have stated in another thread, I have proved on the basis of analogous stylistic comparison that the Tannenberg barrel (actually two specimens were found, the shorter one still loaded but the load having disappeared from the museum, the Hessisches Landesmuseum Darmstadt within the last 150 years!) is by no means as early as 'ca. 1390'.
Actually, it cannot have been made before ca. 1430, which makes it a contemporary of the Hussite Wars.

Now how come it was found in the ca. 1390 layer of earth?

That's easy to explain: as it was found deep down in the ground of a well the barrel, due to its slender form and relative weight the bronze barrel must have fallen down from considerable height, bottoming its way down into an older stratum. The fact that the castle of Tannenberg was destroyed in 1390 is neither compellingly nor logically any sort of proof of the exact age of the barrel. There is always the possibilty that, in the course of some smaller fight, these pieces fell into the well somewhen in the 15th century.


Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

Originally Posted by stekemest

How long were those clod shots used? I own a piece that could date from the first half of the 15th century, would that fit?
I also have some of those lead balls filled with a piece of iron or stone. That was done because lead was very expensive.

Hi,

As I have been both rather freely and busy sharing the pieces in my collection, and as these objects are so rare to find:
would you please care to post good images of your clod shot?

Thanks in advance,
Michael