Two Very Fine Landsknecht Swords, Southern Germany, ca. 1490 and 1525

[Matchlock]

Hi Jim,

Thank you for such a thoughtful and profound reply, as of course always!

Yes, I have seen the Augsburg A, together with a smith's mark, on the barrel of a ca. 1580 wheellock sporting gun, the stock profusely inlaid with engraved staghorn, and I guess I also remember seeing that A struck on 500 year old helmets and breasts.

Interestingly enough, the common Gothic majuscule A as used in 15th c. books greatly differed from the Augsburg shape. I attach two samples from a ca. 1420 Prague illuminated manuscript. This, in my experience, is not unusual though letters struck into stone, wood or iron do not look the same as calligraphic letters as they are composite by various tool strikes.

Best,
Michael

[Swordfish]

Hi all,

that the pommel of the twohander was hammered onto the tang
during combat is a nice theory, but very unlikely. Does any
Landsknecht has the time during fighting, to search the pommel
fallen on the ground, an hammer it onto the tang?
And why is the tang ab. 1 cm too long for the hilt?
Does the Landsknecht has shortened the grip before he put on the
pommel? All during combat? All very unlikely!
All looks as if the hilt was associated later.

That the letter A on the first sword is the mark of Augsburg is
also very unlikely. Why Augsburg and not Aachen or any other
town starting with A?
Most sword blades of the 12th, 13th and 14th have inlaid
symbols , the meanig is unknown today.
I attach photos of a sword dating c. 1200 with a letter A.

Best wishes
Susi

[Jim McDougall]

Michael, thank you so much for the kind words, and for the illustrations of the haquebut c.1600 with one of these majuscule 'A''s.

In going through "Waffenkunde" (W.Boeheim, 1890, p.678) an marking which is very much like the shape of this A with the crossbar atop and no center bar is shown as unidentified, but attributed to Augsburg 15th century. Thus, it seems that the character may have been known without the central rib as well and in Augsburg.

In Boeheim, other examples of these type A letters are seen with other initials and types of crossbar and serif, some attributed to 16th century makers or armourers such as Durer, Aldegrever and Glockendon all from various cities.

It seems that even among the Toledo and Madrid smiths a number of them of the 16th century used the letter A enclosed in cartouche of varying shapes, but often square, with one using the identical style A with V shape crossbar (listed in "Arms and Armour", A. Demmin, 1877, p.567). This one is shown to Alonzo de Caba, armourer. Another with extended bar top cap and drooping serifs at ends, straight center bar to Alonzo de Buena, of same period. There are a number of other A types with varying flourish, serif or structure.
While these obviously indicate the initial of the armourer, it was interesting to see the similarity in majascule style A to these German examples, suggesting the well known traffic in arms and armour commerce between these countries.

Returning to the more arcane, with the mysterious Westphalia tribunals previously mentioned, they had several little known coded alphabets, in which the diagonal lines with top bar and dropped serifs at the ends in the basic shape of the A sans crossbar......in one alphabet the letter 'L' is signified and in another the letter 'Y'. (Demmin, p.582).

So it would seem perhaps that while the letter A could signify Augsburg in the case of the stamp on the haquebut and other items, these stylized majascule letters with varying embellishments also may have been more widely used with different meanings in other parlances. There are many markings which reflect makers marks, with others being monograms of rulers of minor principalities, then of course the guild marks of various centers of arms production.

These are the mysteries that make the study of these blade markings so facinating!





All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

Hi Gentlemen,

very nice discussion, I hope I don't put some oil on the fire with my opinion.
the sword is a composed sword but probably this has been done in the 16th century.
The blade is much older, probably late 14th early 15th century and marked with the Tau cross or St Antons cross. The Guard is very atypical , but like Oakeshott claims; that you never have seen it means nothing unless you have seen them all, anyway it looks 16th century to me, the patin corresponds with the pommel and it has the same mythical creature heads as some of the landsknecht katzbalgers have at their guards.
The bent tang however this could have been done recently or maybe not so recent who can tell ? Grip can be a replacement or authentic and 1cm shortened.

Best,

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

Hi Gentlemen,

very nice discussion, I hope I don't put some oil on the fire with my opinion.
the sword is a composed sword but probably this has been done in the 16th century.
The blade is much older, probably late 14th early 15th century and marked with the Tau cross or St Antons cross. The Guard is very atypical , but like Oakeshott claims; that you never have seen it means nothing unless you have seen them all, anyway it looks 16th century to me, the patin corresponds with the pommel and it has the same mythical creature heads as some of the landsknecht katzbalgers have at their guards.
The bent tang however this could have been done recently or maybe not so recent who can tell ? Grip can be a replacement or authentic and 1cm shortened.

Best,

It really has been a great discussion, and all the better having you join us!!! The Oakeshott axiom is definitely well placed, as there always seem to be previously unknown variations of established forms, which usually makes it extremely hard to assess from photos. I admit I had originally thought these were as described in the catalog as 19th century refurbished but the views by you, Michael and his friend are compelling.

I am unclear about your note on the tau cross, which I thought looked like a T. Which of the markings do you mean?

All the best,
Jim

[cornelistromp]

Hi Jim,

this crux commissa was used by the knights of saint Antoine, sant Antonio, Sankt Anton, sant Antoni.
pictures of a similar cross on a 15thc sword and pictures of "a Ordre Militaire et Hospitalier de Saint-Antoine",knights of christ, painting of van Eyk.
look at the shield of the knight in the front with the cross of blood, it has the woording
D(OMINU)S FORTIS ADONAY SABAOT and from left to right EM(MANU)EL LH.S. XR. AGLA. and the in the middle of the shield...... the T-cross.

best,

[Matchlock]

Hi Jasper,

Thank you for this remarkable post!

Best,
Michael