New member needs some help!

Battara · 30th March 2011, 03:13 AM

Well, this looks like a Moro (southern Philippines) kris sword. The piece appears to be from the late 19th to early 20th century and from the pictures from the Maguindanao tribe. It is a datu piece (a chieftain) and may have originally been a junggayan type of kris. The hilt is made of woven silver and swassa (a type of 9k gold). A silver clamp is on the blade.

Now that all being said, the pommel is atypical and appears recent - later addition to the piece. It is made of ivory, the curve made of a boar's tusk. The stone at the top may be real but I suspect it is glass. Top and bottom of the pommel seems to be made of silver with little pieces of swassa.

Hope this helps and welcome to our little forum.

David · 30th March 2011, 04:35 AM

Wow, that's a bit different. I agree that the hilt treatment is probably not original, but i'm not so sure that it is recent. How recent do you think it is Jose?

Anandalal N. · 30th March 2011, 05:27 AM

Is the pommel Ivory or bone seeing it is not one solid piece but is cladding round a solid core. Beautiful piece certainly.

Battara · 30th March 2011, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Wow, that's a bit different. I agree that the hilt treatment is probably not original, but i'm not so sure that it is recent. How recent do you think it is Jose?

I guess I need to define what I mean by recent. I am thinking it is 1950s. Notice that the patina of the tusk ivory does not match the ivory it is attached, and that one attached is whiter. The workmanship of these mounts is of a lesser quality as well.

Another look at this may make me change my mind and say that this is Sulu instead of Maguindanao.

VANDOO · 30th March 2011, 06:29 AM

A VERY INTERESTING AND UNIQUE KRIS AND A COOL FIRST POST. THE GUARD APPEARS TO BE MADE FROM A WARTHOG TUSK,(ORIGIN AFRICA) THERE IS QUITE
A BIT OF INTERESTING WORKMANSHIP ON THE HANDLE, THE SILVER CAP ON THE TUSK APPEARS TO HAVE QUITE A BIT OF BLACK OXIDATION (TARNISH) THE RING NEAR THE TIP OF THE TUSK HAS SMALLER GEM STONES(PERHAPS GARNETS) MOUNTED SOME OF WHICH ARE MISSING AND THE SETTING DENTED AND DEFORMED LIKELY FROM WEARING IT. THE TUSK MAY HAVE ALREADY HAD THESE PIECES AND BEEN PART OF SOMETHING ELSE OR COULD HAVE BEEN DONE JUST FOR THIS KRIS. THE SILVER BEAD WORK GOING UP THE SIDES OF THE TUSK MAY BE TO HELP ATTACH IT OR JUST FOR DECORATION BUT ARE VERY UNUSUAL. THE IVORY PIECES ON THE POMMEL ARE LIKELY CUT FROM WARTHOG TUSK IF MADE AT THE SAME TIME BUT MAY BE ANOTHER TYPE OF IVORY?? THE SWASSA AND SILVER DECORATION INDICATES TO ME SOMEONE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF MONEY TO HAVE THIS HANDLE MADE SO I WOULD TAKE IT TO A JEWELER TO CHECK THE STONE IN THE POMMEL BECAUSE IF IT IS REAL YOU NEED TO KNOW IT. A STONE OF THAT SIZE WOULD BE WORTH SOME HEAVY CASH BUT IT IS LIKELY TO BE GLASS OR SYNTHETIC WHICH MAY HELP GET AN IDEA TO ITS AGE AS A GOOD JEWELER SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE A GUESS AS TO DATE AND WHERE CUT BY LOOKING AT THE MATERIAL AND FACETING WORK. IF PLASTIC IT WILL BE QUITE RECENT IF A TOP QUALITY GLASS SYNTHETIC IT WILL BE OLDER BUT STILL RELATIVELY RECENT. IF ITS A REAL TOP QUALITY PINK SAPPHIRE IT NEEDS TO LIVE IN A SAFE OR VAULT. LOOK IN THE RECESSES AND CRACKS AROUND ALL FITTINGS FOR CRUD (DIRT CORROSION ECT.) IF ITS CLEAN OR THERE IS RECENT GLUE THAT'S A BAD SIGN THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN PUT TOGETHER RECENTLY.AS ALWAYS I CAN'T JUDGE VERY WELL FROM PICTURES. WELCOME TO THE FORUM AND GOOD LUCK

Atlantia · 30th March 2011, 10:26 AM

Welcome to the forums Timmyb.
What a fantastic looking and unique piece!
The tusk knuckle bow is a completely new concept in my experience.

Congratulations on a great looking sword!

Best
Gene

Spunjer · 30th March 2011, 04:04 PM

it's a novelty kalis... meaning the handguard was added for no other reason than:

a) to bolster sale (done by a lumad or christian vendor)
b) the new owner's (most likely a foreigner) personal whim

i don't see any reason why a moro would desicrate a kalis with a part of an "unclean" animal...

Battara · 30th March 2011, 07:32 PM

Very true Ron, very true............

David · 30th March 2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

i don't see any reason why a moro would desicrate a kalis with a part of an "unclean" animal...

Very good point Ron, this wasn't done by a Muslim for a Muslim.

30th March 2011, 03:13 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Well, this looks like a Moro (southern Philippines) kris sword. The piece appears to be from the late 19th to early 20th century and from the pictures from the Maguindanao tribe. It is a datu piece (a chieftain) and may have originally been a junggayan type of kris. The hilt is made of woven silver and swassa (a type of 9k gold). A silver clamp is on the blade. Now that all being said, the pommel is atypical and appears recent - later addition to the piece. It is made of ivory, the curve made of a boar's tusk. The stone at the top may be real but I suspect it is glass. Top and bottom of the pommel seems to be made of silver with little pieces of swassa. Hope this helps and welcome to our little forum.

30th March 2011, 04:35 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Wow, that's a bit different. I agree that the hilt treatment is probably not original, but i'm not so sure that it is recent. How recent do you think it is Jose?

30th March 2011, 05:27 AM	#3
Anandalal N. Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 84	Is the pommel Ivory or bone seeing it is not one solid piece but is cladding round a solid core. Beautiful piece certainly.

30th March 2011, 06:29 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A VERY INTERESTING AND UNIQUE KRIS AND A COOL FIRST POST. THE GUARD APPEARS TO BE MADE FROM A WARTHOG TUSK,(ORIGIN AFRICA) THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF INTERESTING WORKMANSHIP ON THE HANDLE, THE SILVER CAP ON THE TUSK APPEARS TO HAVE QUITE A BIT OF BLACK OXIDATION (TARNISH) THE RING NEAR THE TIP OF THE TUSK HAS SMALLER GEM STONES(PERHAPS GARNETS) MOUNTED SOME OF WHICH ARE MISSING AND THE SETTING DENTED AND DEFORMED LIKELY FROM WEARING IT. THE TUSK MAY HAVE ALREADY HAD THESE PIECES AND BEEN PART OF SOMETHING ELSE OR COULD HAVE BEEN DONE JUST FOR THIS KRIS. THE SILVER BEAD WORK GOING UP THE SIDES OF THE TUSK MAY BE TO HELP ATTACH IT OR JUST FOR DECORATION BUT ARE VERY UNUSUAL. THE IVORY PIECES ON THE POMMEL ARE LIKELY CUT FROM WARTHOG TUSK IF MADE AT THE SAME TIME BUT MAY BE ANOTHER TYPE OF IVORY?? THE SWASSA AND SILVER DECORATION INDICATES TO ME SOMEONE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF MONEY TO HAVE THIS HANDLE MADE SO I WOULD TAKE IT TO A JEWELER TO CHECK THE STONE IN THE POMMEL BECAUSE IF IT IS REAL YOU NEED TO KNOW IT. A STONE OF THAT SIZE WOULD BE WORTH SOME HEAVY CASH BUT IT IS LIKELY TO BE GLASS OR SYNTHETIC WHICH MAY HELP GET AN IDEA TO ITS AGE AS A GOOD JEWELER SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE A GUESS AS TO DATE AND WHERE CUT BY LOOKING AT THE MATERIAL AND FACETING WORK. IF PLASTIC IT WILL BE QUITE RECENT IF A TOP QUALITY GLASS SYNTHETIC IT WILL BE OLDER BUT STILL RELATIVELY RECENT. IF ITS A REAL TOP QUALITY PINK SAPPHIRE IT NEEDS TO LIVE IN A SAFE OR VAULT. LOOK IN THE RECESSES AND CRACKS AROUND ALL FITTINGS FOR CRUD (DIRT CORROSION ECT.) IF ITS CLEAN OR THERE IS RECENT GLUE THAT'S A BAD SIGN THAT IT MAY HAVE BEEN PUT TOGETHER RECENTLY.AS ALWAYS I CAN'T JUDGE VERY WELL FROM PICTURES. WELCOME TO THE FORUM AND GOOD LUCK

30th March 2011, 10:26 AM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Welcome to the forums Timmyb. What a fantastic looking and unique piece! The tusk knuckle bow is a completely new concept in my experience. Congratulations on a great looking sword! Best Gene

30th March 2011, 04:04 PM	#7
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	it's a novelty kalis... meaning the handguard was added for no other reason than: a) to bolster sale (done by a lumad or christian vendor) b) the new owner's (most likely a foreigner) personal whim i don't see any reason why a moro would desicrate a kalis with a part of an "unclean" animal...

30th March 2011, 07:32 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Very true Ron, very true............