European (Italian?) Dagger

A Senefelder · 27th March 2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Thank you Alan, not really though,

Humility is a timeless gauge of a gentleman.

Quote:

Its all about the search, and the most fun is when everybody really digs in and finds answers.

This is what i'm quickly comming to discover as I travel into the uncharted territory ( for me ) of ethnographics. It was what first drew me into militaria when I was a kid ( Dads to blame for getting me started ) and still holds its allure today.

I believe the blade has been cut down as Fernando notes about the fuller reaching nearly the tip of the blade. It also seems to teminate deep inside the quillon block as it exhibits no signs of tappering where it enters. While fullers could continue slightly inside the block generally they're tappering away, this fuller seems to be continuing in uniform width when it enters the block ( the fuller of the composite sword I posted earlier is defintely narrowing at the point where the shoulder of the original guard would have been by way of example ).

Spunjer · 27th March 2011, 06:28 PM

i think you nail it on the head, jim! what he forgot to mentioned was a bunch of obscure letters on the other side of the blade. barely legible. see here:

the name "CLAUDIO" matches! so it could be "CLAUDIO FRANZINI" like you mentioned

and here are the maker's marks:

close up of the tip:

Spunjer · 27th March 2011, 06:30 PM

here are the dimensions:

and finally, close ups of the crossguard and hilt:

Atlantia · 27th March 2011, 06:40 PM

Similar blade with short fuller:

I would say that this is how your blade started.
Visible fuller length beyond cup/guard on my sword is 10".
I would place the date of the reconstruction to possibly end of the 18thC but more likey early 19thC (as Jim said).
Despite the fact that this is made from a reclaimed blade, I think that it is of rather good quality. The mounts remind me of the Napoleonic era. There is an almost naval dirk look to the whole piece also.
Rather interesting.

Spunjer · 28th March 2011, 01:03 AM

interesting indeed! what's the length of the sword?

Atlantia · 28th March 2011, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

interesting indeed! what's the length of the sword?

Hi Spunjer

It is 41 1/2 " long overall with a 35" blade (visible edge).

Jim McDougall · 28th March 2011, 02:04 AM

Thanks very much Alan for the kind words

Spunjer thanks too, and for adding the additional photos. The pictures Gene added give us exactly the image of how the blade would have looked, and this extremely nice rapier has the 'Sahagun' inscription often used on these Solingen blades. Note the characteristic symbols or sigils that are typically seen in these blades as well, which are added to imbue magical or talismanic properties and as quality guarantees. The exact character of these and attribution cannot with confidence be attributed to particular makers or periods, but certain consistancies seem to exist which are not yet fully documented.

While we know of an early 17th century rapier for a boy with this name on the blade, we do not know exactly the style of the blade. Since this blade seems to correspond to what I believe are Solingen examples of latter 17th century, it seems quite possible this is a Solingen blade using the name.
The possibility that it is in fact a 17th century blade to this maker also remains possible with more evidence supporting the existence of the maker in Italy.
The symbol or sigil that looks like a cursive M may be either an astrological symbol (virgo, scorpio?) or a sigil of undetermined meaning which were often adopted by makers and applied along with these names.

The hilt appears of course to represent the Royal crowns of the United Kingdom not only in its shape as a crown, but the cross pattee, or often considered Tuetonic cross as seen on these crowns....and.below it the shamrock. During and after the Napoleonic Wars the fluer de lis was removed from the Royal coat of arms and typically was present on the crowns. The harp of Ireland was added in the quarter on the arms, and perhaps the shamrock takes the place on the crown as here. For this reason, and the regal theme I think this is an assemblage from the early blade and cast mounts about mid to latter 19th c.
Very nice dagger which has a nice dirk presence to it.

All best regards,
Jim

Spunjer · 28th March 2011, 02:56 PM

thank you for the additional photo, gene, and once again, thank you jim for your esteemed assessment! i'll pass this on to the owner, and i'm sure he'll be more than happy to find out his $125 dollar pick up from a flea market is more than just a "neat dagger".

27th March 2011, 06:40 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Similar blade with short fuller: I would say that this is how your blade started. Visible fuller length beyond cup/guard on my sword is 10". I would place the date of the reconstruction to possibly end of the 18thC but more likey early 19thC (as Jim said). Despite the fact that this is made from a reclaimed blade, I think that it is of rather good quality. The mounts remind me of the Napoleonic era. There is an almost naval dirk look to the whole piece also. Rather interesting. Last edited by Atlantia; 27th March 2011 at 11:56 PM.

27th March 2011, 06:28 PM	#2
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	i think you nail it on the head, jim! what he forgot to mentioned was a bunch of obscure letters on the other side of the blade. barely legible. see here: the name "CLAUDIO" matches! so it could be "CLAUDIO FRANZINI" like you mentioned and here are the maker's marks: close up of the tip:

27th March 2011, 06:30 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	here are the dimensions: and finally, close ups of the crossguard and hilt:

28th March 2011, 01:03 AM	#5
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	interesting indeed! what's the length of the sword?

28th March 2011, 02:04 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,278	Thanks very much Alan for the kind words Spunjer thanks too, and for adding the additional photos. The pictures Gene added give us exactly the image of how the blade would have looked, and this extremely nice rapier has the 'Sahagun' inscription often used on these Solingen blades. Note the characteristic symbols or sigils that are typically seen in these blades as well, which are added to imbue magical or talismanic properties and as quality guarantees. The exact character of these and attribution cannot with confidence be attributed to particular makers or periods, but certain consistancies seem to exist which are not yet fully documented. While we know of an early 17th century rapier for a boy with this name on the blade, we do not know exactly the style of the blade. Since this blade seems to correspond to what I believe are Solingen examples of latter 17th century, it seems quite possible this is a Solingen blade using the name. The possibility that it is in fact a 17th century blade to this maker also remains possible with more evidence supporting the existence of the maker in Italy. The symbol or sigil that looks like a cursive M may be either an astrological symbol (virgo, scorpio?) or a sigil of undetermined meaning which were often adopted by makers and applied along with these names. The hilt appears of course to represent the Royal crowns of the United Kingdom not only in its shape as a crown, but the cross pattee, or often considered Tuetonic cross as seen on these crowns....and.below it the shamrock. During and after the Napoleonic Wars the fluer de lis was removed from the Royal coat of arms and typically was present on the crowns. The harp of Ireland was added in the quarter on the arms, and perhaps the shamrock takes the place on the crown as here. For this reason, and the regal theme I think this is an assemblage from the early blade and cast mounts about mid to latter 19th c. Very nice dagger which has a nice dirk presence to it. All best regards, Jim

28th March 2011, 02:56 PM	#8
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	thank you for the additional photo, gene, and once again, thank you jim for your esteemed assessment! i'll pass this on to the owner, and i'm sure he'll be more than happy to find out his $125 dollar pick up from a flea market is more than just a "neat dagger".