Question about a Dha

[Battara]

Right Andrew - on the money!

I can tell that if the middle one has silver, it is a very low silver, but I would say most likely it is brass.

The one on the left is low silver (if any silver) or perhaps nickel silver (no silver content) with perhaps a low silver pommel.

The one on the right seems to have silver content.

Again: different alloys = different patinas.

[Andrew]

Jose, the right and left handles shown by Gav are a matched set--the right one has been cleaned.

I see what he is talking about--the patina on the left example sure does have a "coppery" tone.

Again, it's going to be quite hard to definitively determine the metal just from the patina (not to mention the fact we're all only looking a pictures on a computer monitor).

However, having said that (and having handled hundreds of examples from the region) I would say that the patina in the original example looks more like a brass alloy than a silver alloy.

[Gavin Nugent]

Another view...just never got around to finishing the job.

Gav

[Andrew]

Gav, does the handle of the cleaned sword look like the silver has some color to it? I wonder if that might not be a silver/copper alloy, which would account for the reddish-brown color of the patina.

I have some silver Thai swords of similar design where the silver patina turned a really nice, rich, lustrous midnight blue. A smalll polished area looked purely silver, but there is clearly an alloy metal there that caused a rather atypical patina color.

BTW, those two swords must be very troubling for you to keep track of--let me know if you want me to hold them for you.

[Battara]

Well most silver is an alloy of some copper. However, if there is a slight reddish hue, then there may be more copper in it making it a lower silver content.

Good point on the patina - tarnish may turn brown on silver, especially the more copper it has.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Gav, does the handle of the cleaned sword look like the silver has some color to it? I wonder if that might not be a silver/copper alloy, which would account for the reddish-brown color of the patina.

I have some silver Thai swords of similar design where the silver patina turned a really nice, rich, lustrous midnight blue. A smalll polished area looked purely silver, but there is clearly an alloy metal there that caused a rather atypical patina color.

BTW, those two swords must be very troubling for you to keep track of--let me know if you want me to hold them for you.

Hi Andrew,

The silver handles actually have a blue colour to them in my eye, I'll find some natural lighting conditions to show it better. The same blue hue is seen in the blades too.
All the low laying areas carry a blue patina. I'll have a good look at the uncleaned pieces tonight and advise of any noticable attributes with in the brown colour.

Some times they are hard and troubling to keep track of and please know you are more than welcome to hold them if you ever visit Brisbane

Gav

[Nathaniel]

This Thai short polearm I have has a curious red/brown on the silver ferrule...I don't know if it is a stain...or a natural patina/tarnish...

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi Andrew,

The silver handles actually have a blue colour to them in my eye, I'll find some natural lighting conditions to show it better. The same blue hue is seen in the blades too.
All the low laying areas carry a blue patina. I'll have a good look at the uncleaned pieces tonight and advise of any noticable attributes with in the brown colour.

Some times they are hard and troubling to keep track of and please know you are more than welcome to hold them if you ever visit Brisbane

Gav

The blades though are blue for another reason though Very interesting...would love to see that captured in a good light as well!

[Battara]

Nathaniel, those areas look like silver tarnish. The purer the silver, the bluer the tarnish will be.

The problem is that the purer the silver, the softer it is and thus less durable, so copper is added in different amounts to strengthen the silver and make it more durable.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Gav, does the handle of the cleaned sword look like the silver has some color to it? I wonder if that might not be a silver/copper alloy, which would account for the reddish-brown color of the patina.

I have some silver Thai swords of similar design where the silver patina turned a really nice, rich, lustrous midnight blue. A smalll polished area looked purely silver, but there is clearly an alloy metal there that caused a rather atypical patina color.

BTW, those two swords must be very troubling for you to keep track of--let me know if you want me to hold them for you.

Yes, I've definitely seen different patina's on Thai silver....I remember too seeing some antique silver jewelry that was a surprising dark midnight blue hue! Love to see some pictures of those beautiful midnight blues :P

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Yes, I've definitely seen different patina's on Thai silver....I remember too seeing some antique silver jewelry that was a surprising dark midnight blue hue! Love to see some pictures of those beautiful midnight blues :P

Nathaniel, I have three swords with a very deep, blue patina. Don't have access to pics of the best one, however.

Here are pics from the HOS exhibition in Macau of my other two. Interstingly, in the light used to photograph them, the patina doesn't look blue--rather it looks quite brown in the one, and you can see hints of brown in the other (which, btw, has a handle very similar to Gav's beautiful matched set).

I think the vagaries of lighting, photography and computer monitor settings/quality are going to significantly affect our ability to really appreciate color and patina. No substitute for actually handling these...

[Battara]

Again not unusual. Silver patinas range from blue, yellow, brown, black.

[Nathaniel]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Nathaniel, I have three swords with a very deep, blue patina. Don't have access to pics of the best one, however.

Here are pics from the HOS exhibition in Macau of my other two. Interstingly, in the light used to photograph them, the patina doesn't look blue--rather it looks quite brown in the one, and you can see hints of brown in the other (which, btw, has a handle very similar to Gav's beautiful matched set).

I think the vagaries of lighting, photography and computer monitor settings/quality are going to significantly affect our ability to really appreciate color and patina. No substitute for actually handling these...

Thanks Andrew Even though it doesn't show in the picture I can easily picture. I remember how surprised I was to see the definite blue hue of my auntie's antique jewelery. I never took a picture of them though...it would be interesting sometime to do that to see if I could get the blue to show up in a photo! Thanks for sharing.