Javanese keris titles - when and how are they bestowed?

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

..... At that time and in that place the keris was regarded as a token of the male, and this has continued until the present day. ..... Thus, when we think of the keris it is a useful, and a valid exercise, to think of the keris in terms of it being male. .....

I agree; for instance, as I was unable to attend my own engagement ceremony, I was forced to send my keris instead.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

..... if the person who gives the title has the authority to give the same title to a man.

I take this as a general rule.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

..... Empu Suparman Supowijoyo. All this explanation came from him. It is not my opinion, nor is it the result of diverse research, it is all from the same source.

Ah yes, Suparman, the Los Indios Tabajaras, of the keris world. A man of good fortune!
BTW ..... I regret to say that I am too lazy to do much research. I only research something I don't know or when I question something I do know. Most of what I know was already there for me, accumulated by successive generations. So some things I can trace as far back as the flooding of Jenggala or even the time of Pu Samarawikranta.

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

..... Regarding Islam in Jawa. ..... We can date the beginnings of Islamic dominance in Jawa from the 1420's. .....

I agree, not forgetting that Islam entered the Archipelago from the Middle-East, India and China.
Islamic kingdoms of significance can be traced as far back as c.700-800CE (e.g. Kerajaan Syiah). On the island of Java, there were many Chinese Muslim residents and scholars/visitors (China had a long-established relationship).

I apologize for any digression. 'nuff said.

Best,

[A. G. Maisey]

You are very fortunate that you know so much instinctively, Amuk Murugul.

Regrettably, I do not.

Much of what I have learnt came from books in English, and from personal experience, and I did not have personal, first hand exposure to Javanese culture until I was into my 20's.

I did not meet Pak Parman until I was into my 40's, however, the instruction that followed from that meeting was like a book being opened that I had previously only suspected the existence of. To receive personal instruction from somebody who had been a part of the keris world for most of his adult life, and who had held the position of Penangguh in the Boworoso Tosanaji was an opportunity not afforded to many people.

The research that I have been forced to carry out since my 20's has mostly been through personal contact with a number of Javanese people, and by accessing various literature and monumental works. Had I not been able to do this, I'm quite certain that what little I do have some knowledge of, would be even less. I often regret that I have no access to devine inspiration.

My life would have been much easier if I had had your good fortune to be able to access all this information in an instinctive fashion.

I envy you.

[A. G. Maisey]

Amuk Murugal, some hours ago I responded to your post # 11.

I had read your post, given it very little thought, simply accepted it as your honest statement of how you saw the matter, and responded as I felt, which was that you had a tremendous advantage over myself because of your great gift for being able to access in an instinctive way, knowledge that is not freely available. As you have told us, you have not needed to carry out any research, you simply know things, and can access that knowledge "accumulated by successive generations" without any effort on your part.

This does not surprise me, I accept that there are some people who have the gift of communion with those who have passed away in previous times, and who can access knowledge both exoteric and esoteric, more or less at the drop of a hat.This gift you have is indeed a great and wondrous one, as the knowledge which you can so freely access is the heritage of a culture that is neither your own, since you were not born in Indonesia, nor of the culture of which you seem to be a part, that of Sunda. I do not doubt for a moment your gift, as I am well aware that there are people who are gifted in this manner.

However, and here is my problem, since I wrote my post # 12 I have received several emails which have expressed disappointment in my response to you because of my failure to raise with you your , and I quote :-

"--- insulting remarks directed at both you and your highly respected teacher, Empu Suparman Supawijaya (alm.) ---".

The "you" in this quote is of course directed at me.

Amuk Murugal, I took no umbrage at your remarks, if anything, I interpreted those remarks as slightly complimentary, however, it does seem that your remarks have upset some people. The specific remark to which these people took exception is:-

"Ah yes, Suparman, the Los Indios Tabajaras, of the keris world. A man of good fortune!"

I cannot detect insult in this, except perhaps for the regrettable lack of title, which a person of Empu Suparman's stature surely does deserve, but as you say, you were not born an Indonesian, and you are not now Indonesian, so I was more than prepared to overlook this lapse of respect on your part, which I am certain was absolutely unintentional.

I must admit, I do not really understand this remark, so even in the absence of an insult perceived by others, I probably should have asked you to clarify your intent --- but then, I am often a little too relaxed.

However, I would greatly appreciate it if you would be so kind as to explain exactly what you meant by this remark of yours that I have quoted above.

It disturbs me that a post which I took to be non-confrontational and mildly complimentary could be interpreted by others to be grossly disrespectful and insulting.

Could you please assist by dispelling this misconception?

Thank you for your cooperation.

[David]

Amuk Murugul, i am likewise concerned about your statements. While i am having a hard time seeing any intended disrespect in your comparison to Empu Suparman to Los Indios Tabarjaras, i am having a hard time making sense of it. Firstly because THEY were a Brazil duo and they played guitars. What possible comparison are you making here?

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody,

I apologise for my tardiness.
I thought that I had finished with this thread.
But, as was just recently pointed out to me, apparently not.

WRT ..... my throw-away comment re: Los Indios:
I viewed THE GROUP, rather than the individuals in it, as the 'entity'.
Similarity?
From obscure/humble beginnings and the lack of formal training in the area where they eventually became renowned.

Alan,
May I remind you that Sunda is not a subset of Indonesia (while geographically, at the moment, that may be so). Sunda and Indonesia are two 'groups' which have an area of 'intersection'; thus they share the same subset.

On the matter of 'insult':
Experience has taught me that, generally, the people who regard the most microscopic of slights as the most monumental of insults are the 'Hyacinth Bucket's of this world (but who may also lack the courage of their conviction).(I'd be surprised if any of your complainants were 'Wong Dalem').
Viz. Back in your neighbourhood: When incidents like the one dubbed 'The Lizard Of Oz' occurred, who bleated the loudest?

BTW ..... on a MUCH LIGHTER NOTE ..... I noticed that you misspelt my name in your last post. Am I to read something into that?

I now consider my input to this thread ended.

Best,

[A. G. Maisey]

I apologise for misspelling your name Amuk Murugul.

Pure error on my part. It is an unusual name, and the word misspelt is one I would only use if addressing you. There are no hidden messages in my error.

Thank you for your explanation of the Los Indios reference.

As I explained in my previous post, I did not read any insult into your comment, however, at least five other people did, two of these people were Javanese, one of whom had known Pak Parman, two were European, and one was from the USA. I must admit that these reactions did surprise me just a little, but that they should come from such a wide sample of nationalities and age groups indicates to me that possibly my own attitude towards what constitutes an insult is perhaps a little too laid back.

I hope that your explanation will satisfy those who saw insult in your previous post, and that they will understand that you were in fact complimenting Pak Parman, not slighting him in any way. Again I thank you for your response.

I have noted your resignation from further participation in this thread.

I find this to be regrettable, but under the circumstances, I can understand your action.

I do hope that you will continue to share your unique knowledge with us into the future.

[PenangsangII]

Very enlightening thread, so shall we get back to it.....

IMHO, the prefix "sang" is not a title, but rather a descriptive title of a person or a keris. Most of the prefix "sang", as far as I know is often used in Malay / Sriwijaya spheres.