karabela

erlikhan · 3rd July 2005, 10:00 AM

ah i see. But it's not an establishment, where a sword can be created/developed. Just a mountain pass named " Karabel" is mentioned in the article. Word "Karabel" means "black or (difficult) mountain pass". I am sure there is no town- especially significant and old- with this name in Turkey.
regards

Jim McDougall · 3rd July 2005, 04:26 PM

This seems to be as noted, likely to have been furbished in the 19th century (possibly earlier) and the crossguard appears to be from an Ottoman sabre of that period (probably kilij as noted by Ariel).The grip seems too thin for that crossguard as well, at least from appearance. This only means that what may well be earlier components were put with this guard in the swords working life, and this seems to be, as Ariel notes, a good fighting example.
It is interesting on the discussion of the term 'karabela' and I have of course heard of the plausible thought of the city in Turkey as having suggested the name. This seems quite possible as if I am not mistaken, Islamic swords were often termed by places associated with the origins of form, forging, even materials used for the sword.
On the term it seems even in Poland, where these were adopted as a form of national weapon especially as parade or dress sabres, the term alludes to a Latin root such as including the 'bella' (=beauty) and kara. I think this was in an article which I will have to reference later. Naturally this was presented as another conjectural theory, as the actual origin of the word remains elusive.

In any case, these are always beautiful sabres, and like Ariel, I like the real rough ones, this one is nice!!

Best regards,
Jim

3rd July 2005, 10:00 AM	#1
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	ah i see. But it's not an establishment, where a sword can be created/developed. Just a mountain pass named " Karabel" is mentioned in the article. Word "Karabel" means "black or (difficult) mountain pass". I am sure there is no town- especially significant and old- with this name in Turkey. regards Last edited by erlikhan; 3rd July 2005 at 05:42 PM.

3rd July 2005, 04:26 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,278	This seems to be as noted, likely to have been furbished in the 19th century (possibly earlier) and the crossguard appears to be from an Ottoman sabre of that period (probably kilij as noted by Ariel).The grip seems too thin for that crossguard as well, at least from appearance. This only means that what may well be earlier components were put with this guard in the swords working life, and this seems to be, as Ariel notes, a good fighting example. It is interesting on the discussion of the term 'karabela' and I have of course heard of the plausible thought of the city in Turkey as having suggested the name. This seems quite possible as if I am not mistaken, Islamic swords were often termed by places associated with the origins of form, forging, even materials used for the sword. On the term it seems even in Poland, where these were adopted as a form of national weapon especially as parade or dress sabres, the term alludes to a Latin root such as including the 'bella' (=beauty) and kara. I think this was in an article which I will have to reference later. Naturally this was presented as another conjectural theory, as the actual origin of the word remains elusive. In any case, these are always beautiful sabres, and like Ariel, I like the real rough ones, this one is nice!! Best regards, Jim