Any Amazon collectors?

[Tim Simmons]

The long one is 45 inches long and idea for keeping an arms length apart. They are not antique but they are certainly not new and have some age when I compare the the weaving with Naga pieces. The pictures are from "AMAZONIEN Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden 2009" collection dates in the publication span the 20th century. So I think I am in good company.

[CourseEight]

Thanks for posting these Tim! Here is the lone Amazonian piece from my collection. A friend says his father lived in Brazil and collected this mid-20th century, but it is just heresay. Closely matches the spear in your last photo I think.

[Tim Simmons]

That will be the next thing I need. In the meantime I have another club and still another to come. I have had to redo the whipping with a hemp cord for fear of loosing the woven pattern. The palm? cord that was on it was down to a few strands. There would have been hemp like cordage in the Amazon. I will bet that this was frequently done with what ever when ever needed. Nice to have one with the same pattern as in a museum book.

[Tim Simmons]

My latest Kayapo sword club, heavy 98cm long. Now I have these treasures the Brazilians with the Chinese can carry on turning the Amazon to tarmac, another 50 years and there might be a few Indian theme parks.

I took the hemp cord off and used raffia much more correct and just the same as seen in books.

[Tim Simmons]

I have picked up this really nice pole club. Not huge 71cm long the wood is surprisingly heavy for the size. It came from a Canadian collection of some really fabulous North American clubs. Obviously I did not stand a chance, you needed huge pockets to house a massive wallet and big belt plus suspenders to hold your pants up. Luckily the nasty bigger boys do not seem interested in South American stuff so I manage to slip in almost unnoticed. I am not completely sure it is Amazon regions but I am sure it is South American judging from what I have seen in varrious museums. What is funny is that is that this club is old, pretty sure its at least turn of the 19-20th century unlike my other Amazon clubs. I got it with shipping and taxes for less than any of the others. Which was rather nice.

[KuKulzA28]

I've got to say thanks for collecting these! I'm fascinated with North, Central, and South American indigenous weapons, but there just doesn't seem to be as much interest in them as antique swords, and I guess hence much less easily accessible literature. Glad you post these up, good to see these wooden poles, bats, and swords.

[Tim Simmons]

Two new friends from Brazil. They are both big clubs but it is hard to get a sence of scale from these basic pictures so I will post more when they arrive. The long sword like club is Kayapo and the big block type is Xavante which looks most interesting.

[colin henshaw]

A good looking group of clubs. Interesting to see variants in the woven grip designs, with those angular contrasting patterns that seem typical of the area.

[Tim Simmons]

New addition to the Amazon collection. It has still to arrive and I only have the one cropped picture. It is the club with the handle uppermost in the pictures. Wayana is only one group that this form may be found. The other pictures are from- the club without teeth additions

Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden. Just listed as a flat club.

the other with Jaguar teeth- Arts of the Amazon- Thames and Hudson. Listed as a ceremonial club used by shaman in the ant shield ceremony.

My club has additions of Peccaries teeth. This form of club is found in the rain forest borders of the Guiana's.

This is a very interesting link that helps set the surroundings, about elusive people in this region.

http://www.kitlv-journals.nl/index.p...File/5298/6065

[Tim Simmons]

I just thought I ought to add this comparison of iconography to what is clearly recognized as Amazonian.

[Tim Simmons]

Finally ready to show this. I know there is limited interest in this sort of thing. Just think about it? yes its not hundreds of years old but it is far from common and I have been informed of its rarity due to evangelism, let alone the small size of population. Poor versions are made for sale. A great deal of the "antique" weapons we collect are very common made in there millions but still seem to be rather expensive.
I have restored the missing tusks, thank you "weapons27" as the tusks were all damaged. Only one of the original tusks was usable after some super glue.

[T. Koch]

Wow, never seen peccary teeth used for anything before! How is the internal structure of the tooth - very much like that of a pig's, I imagine?

Mounted on the club, one can't tell the difference. You've done a good job of replacing them!

Thanks for putting it up Tim. This thread is really interesting, and I'm always excited to see you update with new stuff.


All the best, - Thor

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Finally ready to show this. I know there is limited interest in this sort of thing.

Don't worry, I'm sure there are those who are intrigued but unable to add much input. It was the same for Taiwanese aborignal knives - it's just not a collector's hot-spot so-to-speak. Nihonto, keris, Moro & Filipino, and Indo-Persian stuff is a whole 'nother story...
I for one am fascinated, but I don't have any authentic vintage/antique clubs or some immense wealth of knowledge ...I just have an old 70+ yr old set of apinaje bow and arrows, and it's Amazonian archery that I have more knowledge on.

More recently collected or not, this club is an example of their material culture, and even if it is a ceremonial-oriented object, or a warclub design no longer (if ever) used in war, it sheds light on what is, what was, and what may have been...

I did find this flat convex edged paddle-like club here at American Museum of Natural History: http://anthro.amnh.org/south

They are attributed to the Wayana - you probably knew already.


What interests me somewhat is that it resembles one of the paddle-club shapes that Walter Roth describes. Essentially Don Arp, Jr. breaks down Guianan clubs as "block", "spatulate", "paddle", and "dagger"... he is mainly drawing upon Walter Roth's work I think.
I am getting my information from here: http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/vi...lock%20Club%22
That article has been posted on the Ethno. Arms & Armor forum before, in the macana/aputu thread.

Check page 15, the generalized shapes for the "paddle clubs" have one incomplete sketch on the right that resembles these Wayana clubs... Where-as the left-most I have seen attributed to Kali'na/Caribe and Makushi... and the centeral one I have seen in depictions of Arawaks/Lokonos.


These clubs, having two bulges and a spike remind me of an arawak club:
http://www.americanindian.si.edu/sea...size=75&page=1
which looks relatively similar to the central sketch of paddle clubs in the Aputu article I linked to earlier...

[Iain]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Finally ready to show this. I know there is limited interest in this sort of thing. Just think about it? yes its not hundreds of years old but it is far from common and I have been informed of its rarity due to evangelism, let alone the small size of population. Poor versions are made for sale. A great deal of the "antique" weapons we collect are very common made in there millions but still seem to be rather expensive.
I have restored the missing tusks, thank you "weapons27" as the tusks were all damaged. Only one of the original tusks was usable after some super glue.

Very nice restoration. I'm certainly interested in this sort of thing - I just have so little knowledge its hard to know what to say. I will say thank you, because threads like these end up providing more info than the rest of the Internet, particularly because the items in question are actually shown and not just written about.

[colin henshaw]

Interesting Tim, thanks for posting - your collection is certainly expanding...

[Tim Simmons]

Thanks Colin. A little bit of follow up to this new club. From, Museums fur Volkerkunde Dresden "Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen" Here the Ikpeng are called Txicao their language group. I am sure people will find the pictures interesting, the club is 115cm long.

[Sajen]

Amazing collection of Amazon clubs you have there Tim, congrats!

Regards,

Detlef

[colin henshaw]

Thought these recent finds (Amazonian club and beaded apron), would be best tacked onto Tim's thread. Northern Brazil/Southern Guyana ?

I do like those Amazon strong geometric designs...

Regards.

[KuKulzA28]

the bat looks like Kayapo weaponry to me

I agree, some of them have very nice geometric weaving, like that one

[ashoka]

Just to show the range of size and shapes of some of these old Amazon Makana and Sapakana from Guyana/Guiana and Brazil, here are some photos of a friends collection, some nice examples pretty much showing all the forms used for bashing heads... enjoy! Stefan

[VANDOO]

WOW!!! WHAT A REMARKABLE COLLECTION SOMETHING THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND THRU MANY YEARS OF COLLECTING. THANKS FOR SHAREING

[ashoka]

Thanks Barry. Yes years of collecting and quite some dedication to the subject. These things in particular look good in a group. Apparantly once you have one you want them all...