A true American firearm: the Kentucky Long Rifle

laEspadaAncha · 17th February 2011, 12:08 AM

Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures.

Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

Lee · 18th February 2011, 02:20 PM

I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.

fernando · 28th February 2011, 04:35 PM

I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett.
I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally.

.

Matchlock · 15th March 2011, 02:46 AM

Hi 'Nando,

The flintlock mechanism you posted is doubtlessly a replica of the mechanism of a Prussian military musket, ca. 1740!

I attach some images of a Pussian musket und pistol of the 1740's. The identifying characteristics are the sharply edged jaws of the cock, the edged underside of the pan and the even upper ridge of the frizzen. The original Prussian mechanisms were always signed POTZDAMMAGAZ for the Potsdam arsenal. The belly of the flat cock always protrudes over the lower edge of the lock plate.

Nobody's perfect, even books are not. I have noticed over the decades that a lot of rubbish about German military muzzleloaders has been published overseas ...

Best,
Michael

laEspadaAncha · 15th March 2011, 05:28 PM

Hi Michael,

That would make perfect sense, considering an overwhelming majority of the Pennsylvania gunsmiths credited with developing the Kentucky Long Rifle were 1st- and 2nd-generation German and Prussian immigrants.

Regards,

Chris

Matchlock · 15th March 2011, 05:58 PM

Hi Chris,

Good point, this one!

I now remember reading about that fact.

Best,
Michael

fernando · 15th March 2011, 06:56 PM

Ai Michl, don't shoot me

.
I was only willing to show that atypical (?) patchbox; the lock happened to be in the same page and i decided not to delete it.
But let me tell you that the book author was aware of the Prussian influence in the lock depicted. In the text, and in line with what Chris reminds, he quotes the several gunsmiths that were among the large number of German imigrants that in 1710 fled to the New World for religious reasons and settled on the territory of Pennsylvania, continuing with the production of their favourite rifled flintlocks which, after known evolutions, originated the Kentucky rifle.
In a different perspective, the author assumes the virtual Prussian origin of the posted lock, in a page where he confronts de various lock typologies, as here (partly) attached.
By the way, the book is called "Great Century of GUNS" (ref. XIX century), with texts by Branko Bogdanovic and air-brush illustrations by Ivan Valencak (ISBN 0-8317-4070-1).

.

28th February 2011, 04:35 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett. I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally. . Attached Images

15th March 2011, 02:46 AM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, The flintlock mechanism you posted is doubtlessly a replica of the mechanism of a Prussian military musket, ca. 1740! I attach some images of a Pussian musket und pistol of the 1740's. The identifying characteristics are the sharply edged jaws of the cock, the edged underside of the pan and the even upper ridge of the frizzen. The original Prussian mechanisms were always signed POTZDAMMAGAZ for the Potsdam arsenal. The belly of the flat cock always protrudes over the lower edge of the lock plate. Nobody's perfect, even books are not. I have noticed over the decades that a lot of rubbish about German military muzzleloaders has been published overseas ... Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 15th March 2011 at 03:18 AM.

15th March 2011, 06:56 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Ai Michl, don't shoot me . I was only willing to show that atypical (?) patchbox; the lock happened to be in the same page and i decided not to delete it. But let me tell you that the book author was aware of the Prussian influence in the lock depicted. In the text, and in line with what Chris reminds, he quotes the several gunsmiths that were among the large number of German imigrants that in 1710 fled to the New World for religious reasons and settled on the territory of Pennsylvania, continuing with the production of their favourite rifled flintlocks which, after known evolutions, originated the Kentucky rifle. In a different perspective, the author assumes the virtual Prussian origin of the posted lock, in a page where he confronts de various lock typologies, as here (partly) attached. By the way, the book is called "Great Century of GUNS" (ref. XIX century), with texts by Branko Bogdanovic and air-brush illustrations by Ivan Valencak (ISBN 0-8317-4070-1). . Attached Images

17th February 2011, 12:08 AM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures. Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

18th February 2011, 02:20 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.

15th March 2011, 05:28 PM	#5
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Michael, That would make perfect sense, considering an overwhelming majority of the Pennsylvania gunsmiths credited with developing the Kentucky Long Rifle were 1st- and 2nd-generation German and Prussian immigrants. Regards, Chris

15th March 2011, 05:58 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Chris, Good point, this one! I now remember reading about that fact. Best, Michael