A true American firearm: the Kentucky Long Rifle

laEspadaAncha · 12th February 2011, 04:17 AM

Hi Lee,

I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread.

Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector.

I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!?

I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community.

*****

Mark - Thank you...

I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.

Lee · 16th February 2011, 06:38 AM

Early enough to have started out as a flintlock, but sufficiently late that the lock is secured by a single screw, as above, see the discussion on the ALR Forum. The promised photographs follow...

fernando · 16th February 2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

... I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!?

I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community. ...

Yeah, a rather unorthodox procedure, so to say; both in fire and edged weapons

.

laEspadaAncha · 17th February 2011, 12:08 AM

Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures.

Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

Lee · 18th February 2011, 02:20 PM

I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.

fernando · 28th February 2011, 04:35 PM

I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett.
I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally.

.

Matchlock · 15th March 2011, 02:46 AM

Hi 'Nando,

The flintlock mechanism you posted is doubtlessly a replica of the mechanism of a Prussian military musket, ca. 1740!

I attach some images of a Pussian musket und pistol of the 1740's. The identifying characteristics are the sharply edged jaws of the cock, the edged underside of the pan and the even upper ridge of the frizzen. The original Prussian mechanisms were always signed POTZDAMMAGAZ for the Potsdam arsenal. The belly of the flat cock always protrudes over the lower edge of the lock plate.

Nobody's perfect, even books are not. I have noticed over the decades that a lot of rubbish about German military muzzleloaders has been published overseas ...

Best,
Michael

laEspadaAncha · 15th March 2011, 05:28 PM

Hi Michael,

That would make perfect sense, considering an overwhelming majority of the Pennsylvania gunsmiths credited with developing the Kentucky Long Rifle were 1st- and 2nd-generation German and Prussian immigrants.

Regards,

Chris

16th February 2011, 06:38 AM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	Late Long Rifle likely by Christian Beck, Son of J. P. Beck Early enough to have started out as a flintlock, but sufficiently late that the lock is secured by a single screw, as above, see the discussion on the ALR Forum. The promised photographs follow... Attached Images

28th February 2011, 04:35 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett. I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally. . Attached Images

15th March 2011, 02:46 AM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, The flintlock mechanism you posted is doubtlessly a replica of the mechanism of a Prussian military musket, ca. 1740! I attach some images of a Pussian musket und pistol of the 1740's. The identifying characteristics are the sharply edged jaws of the cock, the edged underside of the pan and the even upper ridge of the frizzen. The original Prussian mechanisms were always signed POTZDAMMAGAZ for the Potsdam arsenal. The belly of the flat cock always protrudes over the lower edge of the lock plate. Nobody's perfect, even books are not. I have noticed over the decades that a lot of rubbish about German military muzzleloaders has been published overseas ... Best, Michael Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 15th March 2011 at 03:18 AM.

12th February 2011, 04:17 AM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Lee, I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread. Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector. I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!? I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community. *** Mark** - Thank you... I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.

17th February 2011, 12:08 AM	#4
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures. Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

18th February 2011, 02:20 PM	#5
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 937	I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.

15th March 2011, 05:28 PM	#8
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Michael, That would make perfect sense, considering an overwhelming majority of the Pennsylvania gunsmiths credited with developing the Kentucky Long Rifle were 1st- and 2nd-generation German and Prussian immigrants. Regards, Chris