A true American firearm: the Kentucky Long Rifle

laEspadaAncha · 10th February 2011, 05:54 PM

Hello Lee, and thank you, both for the compliments and for the link to your own exploratory journey pertaining to your own example of this iconic firearm, which I see took place just a couple months ago. I immensely enjoyed reading the feedback and input regarding your (C.? J.P.?) Beck rifle. Would you mind if I post those pictures here in this thread?

Until now I was unaware of the existence of the ALR forum (early firearms do not command my interest to the same degree as edged weapons), and I'm appreciative of the tip, one definitely worth pursuing.

One bit of interesting information regarding the gunsmith responsible for the manufacture of my own example: Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century...

*****

Zwielicht, thank you, and it is indeed in nice condition, lacking any of the damage commonly found where such rifles were most susceptible to breakage.

Jim, my friend, the next time you're westward bound, at your request we will remedy that lack of exposure! Though I am somewhat confused, as I though in the Lone Star State, it was mandatory (state law, even?) that all Texans shoot something at least once a month?

Nando, such customs of variable trigger pulls as you describe make perfect sense, though personally, I would never want a trigger set to such a light pull as I described on the Plains rifle, as some tactile feedback is IMO important for the timing of a shot where accuracy and precision are at a premium.

Jim McDougall · 10th February 2011, 09:14 PM

Hi Chris,
LOL! Yup, in Texas pretty much everybody has a gun, or many, but not being 'officially' Texan, I think I fall in the exceptions category. Since my status as a gypsy rover pretty much prevails mostly, I'd have to say Im probably more Californio than anything else

When the caravan gets west I'll sure take you up on that!
Just wanted to say I really like your style Chris, not only do you take the time to acknowledge the posts and comments of others, but you do so personally, a most refreshing courtesy. Thank you.

All the best,
Jim

laEspadaAncha · 11th February 2011, 02:46 AM

Thank you Jim - your kind words are warmly appreciated. And yes, my friend, you are most definitely a fellow Californio, but when in Rome, eh?

M ELEY · 11th February 2011, 06:19 AM

Beautiful rifle, especially the tiger maple!! I've always been fascinated by the various patterning of this wood in Kentucky rifles. Used to get Flayderman's catalogs with examples in color on the cover. Amazing piece. I can see why it was one of the factors that turned the tide of the Rev War vs the ole' Brown Bess. The frontiersman's accuracy with these were spot-on for the period. Thanks for posting it!

Lee · 11th February 2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century.

I have seen these old rifling rigs in museums and I am always somewhat overwhelmed when I consider the skill and labor that went into making one of the barrels, let alone the entire rifle (even though locks were usually bought from a specialist).

My first long rifle was fairly plain, like yours lacking a patchbox but with a well proportioned and crafted tiger maple stock. Enthusiasts chided me - to my horror - that if they had it they would promptly redress that deficiency. It had been flint and was converted and then reconverted with some overly worn parts. But, just as North Carolina guns are scarce, this one turned out to be from a maker who had migrated from PA to the Hudson Valley region of New York just before the Revolution and so it too is a bit uncommon. I will present it once I have my photo studio back and manage to dig it out from the back of the armoury.

Espada, if you will allow me a couple of days, I will dig out the originals of the Christian Beck rifle pictures. The ALR forum software downsizes the images and so the versions I retain are a little sharper. I enjoyed that bit of detective work and I am convinced that there are at least four blood-related Christian Becks that were making rifles. The eldest Christian Beck had a son also named Christian Beck, but that son apprenticed under a different maker and worked in a different, though very plastic style. I cannot imagine a man as proficient as he in engraving giving all of that skill up to place a single line of rocker engraving! Despite documentation deficiencies, the rifle over my mantle must have been made by a cousin of the eldest Christian Beck as it has features more in common with the eldest Christian Beck and his famed brother J.P. Beck, but in a rifle clearly a generation later than these golden age masters. But there is much more research to be done to prove or disprove this observation.

laEspadaAncha · 12th February 2011, 04:17 AM

Hi Lee,

I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread.

Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector.

I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!?

I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community.

*****

Mark - Thank you...

I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.

Lee · 16th February 2011, 06:38 AM

Early enough to have started out as a flintlock, but sufficiently late that the lock is secured by a single screw, as above, see the discussion on the ALR Forum. The promised photographs follow...

fernando · 16th February 2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

... I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!?

I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community. ...

Yeah, a rather unorthodox procedure, so to say; both in fire and edged weapons

.

laEspadaAncha · 17th February 2011, 12:08 AM

Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures.

Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

Lee · 18th February 2011, 02:20 PM

I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.

fernando · 28th February 2011, 04:35 PM

I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett.
I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally.

.

16th February 2011, 06:38 AM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Late Long Rifle likely by Christian Beck, Son of J. P. Beck Early enough to have started out as a flintlock, but sufficiently late that the lock is secured by a single screw, as above, see the discussion on the ALR Forum. The promised photographs follow... Attached Images

28th February 2011, 04:35 PM	#11
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I was paging a book that i have and learned that "Old Betsy" was the name of the Kentucky rifle that was gifted by Philadelphia to David Crockett. I have also scanned from the same book a nice air-brush illustration of the mechanism and butt of an example of these rifles, in which the patchbox has the particularity to open laterally. . Attached Images

10th February 2011, 05:54 PM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hello Lee, and thank you, both for the compliments and for the link to your own exploratory journey pertaining to your own example of this iconic firearm, which I see took place just a couple months ago. I immensely enjoyed reading the feedback and input regarding your (C.? J.P.?) Beck rifle. Would you mind if I post those pictures here in this thread? Until now I was unaware of the existence of the ALR forum (early firearms do not command my interest to the same degree as edged weapons), and I'm appreciative of the tip, one definitely worth pursuing. One bit of interesting information regarding the gunsmith responsible for the manufacture of my own example: Evan Johnson was one of only two gunsmiths in North Carolina with rifle boring machines in the mid-19th Century... *** Zwielicht, thank you, and it is indeed in nice condition, lacking any of the damage commonly found where such rifles were most susceptible to breakage. Jim*, my friend, the next time you're westward bound, at your request we will remedy that lack of exposure! Though I am somewhat confused, as I though in the Lone Star State, it was mandatory (state law, even?) that all Texans shoot something* at least once a month? Nando, such customs of variable trigger pulls as you describe make perfect sense, though personally, I would never want a trigger set to such a light pull as I described on the Plains rifle, as some tactile feedback is IMO important for the timing of a shot where accuracy and precision are at a premium.

10th February 2011, 09:14 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	Hi Chris, LOL! Yup, in Texas pretty much everybody has a gun, or many, but not being 'officially' Texan, I think I fall in the exceptions category. Since my status as a gypsy rover pretty much prevails mostly, I'd have to say Im probably more Californio than anything else When the caravan gets west I'll sure take you up on that! Just wanted to say I really like your style Chris, not only do you take the time to acknowledge the posts and comments of others, but you do so personally, a most refreshing courtesy. Thank you. All the best, Jim

11th February 2011, 02:46 AM	#3
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Thank you Jim - your kind words are warmly appreciated. And yes, my friend, you are most definitely a fellow Californio, but when in Rome, eh?

11th February 2011, 06:19 AM	#4
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Beautiful rifle, especially the tiger maple!! I've always been fascinated by the various patterning of this wood in Kentucky rifles. Used to get Flayderman's catalogs with examples in color on the cover. Amazing piece. I can see why it was one of the factors that turned the tide of the Rev War vs the ole' Brown Bess. The frontiersman's accuracy with these were spot-on for the period. Thanks for posting it!

12th February 2011, 04:17 AM	#6
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Hi Lee, I will happily wait for you to post the photos of your rifle, and look forward to seeing more examples to this thread. Regarding your your thread on ALR, your genealogical chart on the Beck family of gunsmiths was impressive... What meager research library I have at my disposal is focused primarily on edged weaponry and tribal arts, and I have next to nothing focused on antique firearms. What information I have on Evan Johnson was supplied by another area collector. I guess I am a little surprised to hear antique firearm enthusiasts would suggest an alteration that would modify a piece beyond its original form... adding a patchbox to a stock that originally did not possess one?!? I can't think of a similar alteration one could make to an antique edged weapon that would be considered acceptable by the collector community. *** Mark** - Thank you... I read somewhere that gunsmiths would cure the maple for - what was it? - four years, I think, before they would shape it. A definite aesthetic improvement over the walnut that I understand was the predominant wood of choice in the manufacture of European long arms of the period.

17th February 2011, 12:08 AM	#9
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Beautiful rifle, Lee... It's nice to see another example added to the thread, and thank you for posting the pictures. Any idea what made the inscribed circles / circular impressions I see inside the patch box?

18th February 2011, 02:20 PM	#10
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	I believe that the scribed circles are tool marks reflecting the flat bottomed wood working drill used to 'excavate' the patchbox recess.