Metal wrapped javanese hilt

Jean · 6th January 2011, 11:50 AM

Dear friends,

Sorry to have been the source of so many confusions, it was not intentional but only to show another type of Javanese metal hilt on resin core and possibly from the same origin as the one from Sajen. May be some of you were distracted by the New Year festivities?

Best regards
Jean

David · 6th January 2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Dear friends,

Sorry to have been the source of so many confusions, it was not intentional but only to show another type of Javanese metal hilt on resin core and possibly from the same origin as the one from Sajen. May be some of you were distracted by the New Year festivities?

Best regards
Jean

Hey Jean, i do not believe you are the source of confusion here so no need to apologize. Your entry in this thread is quite logical and applicable to the question...

tunggulametung · 29th January 2011, 09:01 PM

Hello guys, I guess I owe this following post and it is due. I've been exchanging some PMs with Detlef much earlier but here it goes.

This hilt is coming from a Cirebonese friend from whom I obtain some unique pieces, he said it is collected there and I have no doubt about his integrity.

I've seen few examples which is said coming from the area but unfortunately never as eleborate. Other than the shape which is attributed to Surakarta, the material, the build and artistic might give a good direction to Sunda, please refer to (easier to find) golok example from the region.

By mentioning Cirebon, I would suggest that we think of Sunda as a whole, i.e. Kuningan, Bandung, Ciamis, Sukabumi, Pandeglang, Serang, Cianjur, Sumedang, etc. and even the western approximate of Central Java.

I attached some old photos from KILTV online collection to show that by the late 1800s it seems that nunggak semi hilts is rather a standard for Sundanese aristocrates (most of the name confirm they are Sundanese ethnically i.e. not Javanese expatriate by Dutch appointment). If you browse more it is apperent that it is the same case with estern part of Java other than some people who prefer to carry local style on the occasion (East Java, Madura).

I could be wrong but I doubt nunggak semi is unique to Mataram in the past. To the more extreme way of thinking, can anyone prove that it is born over there? Then we learn that Islam teaching start from coastal regions (pesisiran) so could it be Banten? Cirebon? Tegal? Pekalongan? Demak? Jepara? Tuban? Gresik? When was it born? as early as 14 c.? 15c.? 16c.? older? much older? Has anybody worn it once in the street market of Trowulan of Gajah Mada time? Or only after Pajang era? Or is it imported (and/or modified) to Java from Sumatra (Pasai)? I doubt other than Syarif Hidayatullah (Sunan Gunung Jati) and people of his time who live long enough to witness the shift of Hindu to Islam (Majapahit to Mataram) can answer this.

If we brought it to modern time, it is now a 'standard' style, loosly and wrongly, nationwide. On the following pesisiran performace [clip] , the attire, the dance, the music, everything says Sundanese, but not the keris. It has travelled as far as Brunei Darussalam on formal pose and become one of the most popular government souvenir for foreign guests other than Balinese keris.

Of course I can be wrong on this and I'm always eager to learn something new

tunggulametung · 29th January 2011, 09:10 PM

More pictures... Raden Adipati Wira with his amazing collection and (once mine) carved horn hilt which is said coming from Cirebon (or surrounding

).

Sajen · 30th January 2011, 03:10 PM

Hello Chandra,

thank you very much for your detailed post and the very interesting pictures.

I will describe my hilt as a Cirebon yudowinatan hilt.

What catch my eyes are the collection from Raden Adipati Wira. The keris he wear in the first picture and is shown at the second picture in the middle again. The wrongko is typical Cirebon/Tegal but the handle is normally attributed to Sumatra/Kariman Djawa. Also the wrongko at the fourth picture on the left side is in the form of Palembang sheaths but it is not the first time that I have heard that this for is also common for Cirebon. This all shows again that the affinity between Java/Cirebon and Sumatra is very very close.

Thank you again and kind regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 31st January 2011, 04:49 AM

Detlef, there are a number of planar hilt forms, and the differences between them are very, very slight, one really needs to be a tukang jejeran with a family background in the craft to reliably differentiate between the various forms.

The Surakarta yudowinatan form is only one of many of the Surakarta planar hilt forms, but one thing is absolutely certain:- we cannot call this metal hilt "yudowinatan", because of its non-conforming cecekan --- apart from anything else.

In spite of Tunggalametung's interesting offering of photographs, I am afraid that I am unable to move from my opinion that this hilt form is a Central Javanese form, and very probably Surakarta --- but I am not saying here that it was made in Surakarta.

I base my seeming inflexibility on the fact that a photograph in the absence of context does not really demonstrate very much.

If we knew the time, place and circumstances of these photos, we may be able to use what we can see as some sort of evidence of something, but when we take into account the somewhat convoluted dress rules surrounding what was and what was not acceptable in defined circumstances we really are facing a probably insurmountable puzzle.

With all things Javanese there is a difficulty in interpreting anything that is seen, or heard, that can only be overcome with a complete understanding of the circumstances surrounding that which is seen or heard.

Sajen · 31st January 2011, 12:48 PM

Hello Alan,

you are right, I have used the term yudowinatan a little bit frivolous, maybe because it was used before in this thread. I am aware that there a lot different planar handle forms from Surakarta (such as: yudowinatan, canteng, dan longok and others). I have a small collection of different planar handle and when you see them side by side you can see they are different but I am not able to name them. Alongside there are also planar handle from East Java and Banyumasan with the same style. Maybe it will be nice to start one day a own thread about the different planar handle styles.

So I try to couch my description of this handle new: "A metal wrapped planar Central Javanese (most probable Surakarta) handle likely made in Cirebon."

Best regards,

Detlef

29th January 2011, 09:01 PM	#3
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Hello guys, I guess I owe this following post and it is due. I've been exchanging some PMs with Detlef much earlier but here it goes. This hilt is coming from a Cirebonese friend from whom I obtain some unique pieces, he said it is collected there and I have no doubt about his integrity. I've seen few examples which is said coming from the area but unfortunately never as eleborate. Other than the shape which is attributed to Surakarta, the material, the build and artistic might give a good direction to Sunda, please refer to (easier to find) golok example from the region. By mentioning Cirebon, I would suggest that we think of Sunda as a whole, i.e. Kuningan, Bandung, Ciamis, Sukabumi, Pandeglang, Serang, Cianjur, Sumedang, etc. and even the western approximate of Central Java. I attached some old photos from KILTV online collection to show that by the late 1800s it seems that nunggak semi hilts is rather a standard for Sundanese aristocrates (most of the name confirm they are Sundanese ethnically i.e. not Javanese expatriate by Dutch appointment). If you browse more it is apperent that it is the same case with estern part of Java other than some people who prefer to carry local style on the occasion (East Java, Madura). I could be wrong but I doubt nunggak semi is unique to Mataram in the past. To the more extreme way of thinking, can anyone prove that it is born over there? Then we learn that Islam teaching start from coastal regions (pesisiran) so could it be Banten? Cirebon? Tegal? Pekalongan? Demak? Jepara? Tuban? Gresik? When was it born? as early as 14 c.? 15c.? 16c.? older? much older? Has anybody worn it once in the street market of Trowulan of Gajah Mada time? Or only after Pajang era? Or is it imported (and/or modified) to Java from Sumatra (Pasai)? I doubt other than Syarif Hidayatullah (Sunan Gunung Jati) and people of his time who live long enough to witness the shift of Hindu to Islam (Majapahit to Mataram) can answer this. If we brought it to modern time, it is now a 'standard' style, loosly and wrongly, nationwide. On the following pesisiran performace [clip] , the attire, the dance, the music, everything says Sundanese, but not the keris. It has travelled as far as Brunei Darussalam on formal pose and become one of the most popular government souvenir for foreign guests other than Balinese keris. Of course I can be wrong on this and I'm always eager to learn something new Attached Images

29th January 2011, 09:10 PM	#4
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	More pictures... Raden Adipati Wira with his amazing collection and (once mine) carved horn hilt which is said coming from Cirebon (or surrounding ). Attached Images

6th January 2011, 11:50 AM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Dear friends, Sorry to have been the source of so many confusions, it was not intentional but only to show another type of Javanese metal hilt on resin core and possibly from the same origin as the one from Sajen. May be some of you were distracted by the New Year festivities? Best regards Jean

30th January 2011, 03:10 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Chandra, thank you very much for your detailed post and the very interesting pictures. I will describe my hilt as a Cirebon yudowinatan hilt. What catch my eyes are the collection from Raden Adipati Wira. The keris he wear in the first picture and is shown at the second picture in the middle again. The wrongko is typical Cirebon/Tegal but the handle is normally attributed to Sumatra/Kariman Djawa. Also the wrongko at the fourth picture on the left side is in the form of Palembang sheaths but it is not the first time that I have heard that this for is also common for Cirebon. This all shows again that the affinity between Java/Cirebon and Sumatra is very very close. Thank you again and kind regards, Detlef

31st January 2011, 04:49 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Detlef, there are a number of planar hilt forms, and the differences between them are very, very slight, one really needs to be a tukang jejeran with a family background in the craft to reliably differentiate between the various forms. The Surakarta yudowinatan form is only one of many of the Surakarta planar hilt forms, but one thing is absolutely certain:- we cannot call this metal hilt "yudowinatan", because of its non-conforming cecekan --- apart from anything else. In spite of Tunggalametung's interesting offering of photographs, I am afraid that I am unable to move from my opinion that this hilt form is a Central Javanese form, and very probably Surakarta --- but I am not saying here that it was made in Surakarta. I base my seeming inflexibility on the fact that a photograph in the absence of context does not really demonstrate very much. If we knew the time, place and circumstances of these photos, we may be able to use what we can see as some sort of evidence of something, but when we take into account the somewhat convoluted dress rules surrounding what was and what was not acceptable in defined circumstances we really are facing a probably insurmountable puzzle. With all things Javanese there is a difficulty in interpreting anything that is seen, or heard, that can only be overcome with a complete understanding of the circumstances surrounding that which is seen or heard.

31st January 2011, 12:48 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Alan, you are right, I have used the term yudowinatan a little bit frivolous, maybe because it was used before in this thread. I am aware that there a lot different planar handle forms from Surakarta (such as: yudowinatan, canteng, dan longok and others). I have a small collection of different planar handle and when you see them side by side you can see they are different but I am not able to name them. Alongside there are also planar handle from East Java and Banyumasan with the same style. Maybe it will be nice to start one day a own thread about the different planar handle styles. So I try to couch my description of this handle new: "A metal wrapped planar Central Javanese (most probable Surakarta) handle likely made in Cirebon." Best regards, Detlef