Labels, true or just heaps of bull****

David · 15th December 2010, 03:14 PM

I have to say that the more i search for and look at images of Native American war clubs on the net the more i only see stone heads that are meticulously bound and wrapped to their sticks and not completely slathered in resin as this one is. I would love to see an image of just one authenticated club that is bound like Tim's is before i could consider the authenticity of this one.

Jeff D · 15th December 2010, 04:25 PM

I don't know if this helps prove or disprove the authenticity of Tim's clubs, but, here are a few from the Glenbow Museum in Calgary Alberta.

Jeff

David · 15th December 2010, 05:31 PM

Thanks Jeff. Looks like a lot of what i am seeing in these clubs. Not particularly supportive of authenticity for me.

Tim Simmons · 15th December 2010, 07:10 PM

Well it was only hope. This is the only picture I have from "Indian & Eskimo Artifacts of North America, Charles Mile. I am talking about fine stubs of hair on the rawhide vissable with x10. Sadly I could not take pictures of the varrious types that were on display in the BM.

David · 15th December 2010, 07:17 PM

Well Tim, if we never took any chances....

VANDOO · 15th December 2010, 08:43 PM

THERE WERE MANY TRIBES PRESENT IN THE AMERICAS MANY OF WHICH MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS SEPARATE FROM OTHER GROUPS.
THE LIVING STANDARDS RANGED FROM VERY SOPHISTICATED CULTURES TO THOSE WHO WERE POOR AND LIVED NO BETTER THAN THE EARLY ANCESTORS OF MODERN MAN.
THE QUALITY AND NUMBERS OF SURVIVING EXAMPLES OF ARTEFACTS FROM THE POOR TRIBES NO DOUBT DID NOT SURVIVE. COLLECTORS AND MUSEUMS ONLY COLLECTED THE ITEMS THEY ADMIRED BECAUSE OF THE WORKMANSHIP OR THEIR RESPECT FOR THAT TRIBE.
ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT THESE MAY HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE MUSEUM USING OLD TECKNIQUES AND MATERIALS AS WELL AS NEW ONES TO ILLUSTRATE HOW THEY WERE MADE AND TO LEARN MORE ABOUT CLUBS FROM THAT ERA.

THE STONE CLUB HEAD PIERCED THRU THE MIDDLE, LIKE A DONNUT IS SEEN SOME IN SOUTH AMERICA AND NEW GUINEA BUT I AM NOT AWARE OF EXAMPLES FROM NORTH AMERICA. ITS POSSIBLE THEY ARE AROUND I JUST DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THEM THE CLUB HEADS USUALLY ARE GROOVED NOT PIERCED. IF THE BEADS ON THE TASSELS AT THE END OF THAT CLUB ARE MODERN OR PLASTIC OR IF THE RESIN ON THE HEAD OF THE OTHER ONE ARE MODERN PLASTIC RESIN I WOULD SUSPECT THESE WERE MADE FOR STUDY BY SOMEONE IN THE FIELD. EITHER WAY THEY ARE INTERESTING AND NOT MADE TO SCAM OR FOOL ANYONE. IF THAT IS THE CASE IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO FIND,OUT WHICH TRIBES THEY WERE STUDYING.
PICTURES OF A FEW VARIATIONS OF NORTH AMERICAN CLUBS ONE APPEARS TO HAVE A PIERCED HEAD.

David · 16th December 2010, 12:17 AM

It looks to me from the photos that the rawhide that attaches the stone to the club in the heavily resined example criss-cross right over what i would image would be the striking surface of the club. Does this seem strange to anyone else from a practical perspective?

15th December 2010, 04:25 PM	#2
Jeff D Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 473	I don't know if this helps prove or disprove the authenticity of Tim's clubs, but, here are a few from the Glenbow Museum in Calgary Alberta. Jeff Attached Images

15th December 2010, 07:10 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,886	Well it was only hope. This is the only picture I have from "Indian & Eskimo Artifacts of North America, Charles Mile. I am talking about fine stubs of hair on the rawhide vissable with x10. Sadly I could not take pictures of the varrious types that were on display in the BM. Attached Images

15th December 2010, 08:43 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THERE WERE MANY TRIBES PRESENT IN THE AMERICAS MANY OF WHICH MAY NEVER HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS SEPARATE FROM OTHER GROUPS. THE LIVING STANDARDS RANGED FROM VERY SOPHISTICATED CULTURES TO THOSE WHO WERE POOR AND LIVED NO BETTER THAN THE EARLY ANCESTORS OF MODERN MAN. THE QUALITY AND NUMBERS OF SURVIVING EXAMPLES OF ARTEFACTS FROM THE POOR TRIBES NO DOUBT DID NOT SURVIVE. COLLECTORS AND MUSEUMS ONLY COLLECTED THE ITEMS THEY ADMIRED BECAUSE OF THE WORKMANSHIP OR THEIR RESPECT FOR THAT TRIBE. ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IS THAT THESE MAY HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE MUSEUM USING OLD TECKNIQUES AND MATERIALS AS WELL AS NEW ONES TO ILLUSTRATE HOW THEY WERE MADE AND TO LEARN MORE ABOUT CLUBS FROM THAT ERA. THE STONE CLUB HEAD PIERCED THRU THE MIDDLE, LIKE A DONNUT IS SEEN SOME IN SOUTH AMERICA AND NEW GUINEA BUT I AM NOT AWARE OF EXAMPLES FROM NORTH AMERICA. ITS POSSIBLE THEY ARE AROUND I JUST DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THEM THE CLUB HEADS USUALLY ARE GROOVED NOT PIERCED. IF THE BEADS ON THE TASSELS AT THE END OF THAT CLUB ARE MODERN OR PLASTIC OR IF THE RESIN ON THE HEAD OF THE OTHER ONE ARE MODERN PLASTIC RESIN I WOULD SUSPECT THESE WERE MADE FOR STUDY BY SOMEONE IN THE FIELD. EITHER WAY THEY ARE INTERESTING AND NOT MADE TO SCAM OR FOOL ANYONE. IF THAT IS THE CASE IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO FIND,OUT WHICH TRIBES THEY WERE STUDYING. PICTURES OF A FEW VARIATIONS OF NORTH AMERICAN CLUBS ONE APPEARS TO HAVE A PIERCED HEAD. Attached Images

15th December 2010, 03:14 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	I have to say that the more i search for and look at images of Native American war clubs on the net the more i only see stone heads that are meticulously bound and wrapped to their sticks and not completely slathered in resin as this one is. I would love to see an image of just one authenticated club that is bound like Tim's is before i could consider the authenticity of this one.

15th December 2010, 05:31 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	Thanks Jeff. Looks like a lot of what i am seeing in these clubs. Not particularly supportive of authenticity for me.

15th December 2010, 07:17 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	Well Tim, if we never took any chances....

16th December 2010, 12:17 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	It looks to me from the photos that the rawhide that attaches the stone to the club in the heavily resined example criss-cross right over what i would image would be the striking surface of the club. Does this seem strange to anyone else from a practical perspective?