for share and comment

[David]

Originally Posted by Mamat Lombok

hello Jean,
thank you for your opinion ...you are right .. .. I send this picture to share and comments, it is my expectation .. but when you say that the blade is not old, I would have to argue.
about the age of this dagger frankly I do not know, I just based estimates only.
Thank you.

Mamat

Well Mamat, you put the blade up for comments and comments you got. You say the blade is old because of where you claim to have collected it, but then you say that "frankly I do not know". So what exactly do you base your estimates on and how old is "old". We had this conversation not to long ago. I personally don't call something "old" unless it's pre WWII. It's not "antique unless it is at least 100 years old. But a couple of decades is considered "old by some. Last week is old for some. Which definition of "old do you adhere to?
Frankly, for me this blade raises a few red flags in terms of age and origin. Others here seem to feel the same way. These are, of course, just opinions, but they come from educated sources. Arguing seems pointless unless you can offer some solid provenance.

[Alam Shah]

What I've heard from friends.. unethical dealers do purposely send new artificially aged keris to villagers, meant to trick those whom are seeking old keris in the village, hoping to find a 'sleeper'. Sometimes, these keris are left on purpose to develop rust and 'so-called' patina.. so that the outlook seems old and more believable when viewed by the seeker..

In my limited travels, I've come across some of these.. sometimes a third-party is used to promote the sale.. caveat emptor..

[delor]

Does someone know any example of true ancient kerises with such twisted pattern ?

[Sajen]

Here pictures of a lar gansir blade from my collection, unfortunately relative worn out. Note that the pamor look upwards on one side and downwards at the other side.

[Jean]

A recent specimen probably made in Madura.

[delor]

Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade.
In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate.

Regards.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by delor

Jean, Sagen, thank you.
Jean, recent but very nice blade. Sagen, do you know if this is a recent or "ancient" blade.
In other words, my question was to know if twisted pattern is traditionally accurate.

Regards.

Delor,

the worn out pamor and the worn edges let me think that it is an old blade. The pamor lar gangsir is a pamor what you can find on old/antique keris blades.

Regards,

Detlef