Samoan club gamble.

KuKulzA28 · 2nd December 2010, 08:52 AM

A good resource for Samoan material things can be found [here].

[Here] is their article on nifo'oti type clubs.

It would seem as if the wooden nifo'oti had less practical combat value than the metal bush-knives that were all the called the same... If I am not mistaken, Samoan fire-dancers still use blunt bladed flaming nifo'oti for their fire-dances. The bush knives can still be found in Fiji I think, but I have never been to Fiji and I am no expert.

Tim Simmons · 2nd December 2010, 04:54 PM

Yes a massive gamble

.

It will be here soon. Provides us with a bit of entertainment

But as Lew says there are pictures that hint, and in my mind quite strongly to a good age and patina. We will know soon. In the meantime here is some more information on Samoan clubs from "Samoan Art & Artists, University of Hawaii Press" The hair spliting on the function of the club does not bother me. One will know if made to knock brains out as soon as it is in your hands if you have had any form of martial arts or weapons training. I hope I can upload these extracts in the right order. Do look at the link about "Te Rangi Hiroa"

http://www.natlib.govt.nz/collection...ter-henry-buck

Tim Simmons · 6th December 2010, 07:33 PM

Lady luck has been most obliging, smothering me with her charm. Not only is it very pleasant but arrived just as I got out of the car on my return from walking the dogs.

The pictures are not the most subtle but it is dark outside. Huge old club. You can see considerable wear to the distall end. Is that through combat or dance? I could believe these are ceremonial dance clubs but also if used with two hands and having had a life spent swinging clubs they would also be powerful weapons. All I can say is that I would not want to be hit by either side of the club.

Tim Simmons · 6th December 2010, 08:04 PM

Just had a thought about the damaged teeth seen on these clubs. It is possible that it is nothing to do with an idea of weakness in combat but possibly all to do with damage after collection, knocking around as a simple curio?

Atlantia · 6th December 2010, 09:02 PM

Thats a hell of a thing. Can we see it 'in hand'?

Emanuel · 6th December 2010, 11:51 PM

Nice club Tim!

Any chance of some of these being a development of the shark-tooth swords or vice versa, instead of whaling blades? This club looks a lot like a large jaw-bone...albeig not shark.

Emanuel

VANDOO · 7th December 2010, 02:28 AM

CONGRADULATIONS TIM THATS A NICE ONE IT HAS GOOD PATINA AND WEAR AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE MISSING TEETH HAVE BEEN GONE A LONG TIME.
I HAVE ACCIDENTLY BROKEN TEETH OFF ONE I OWN WHEN PUTTING IT INTO A STORAGE RACK AND WAS SURPRIZED AT HOW EASY IT WAS TO DO. VERY LITTLE FORCE WAS REQUIRED AS THE WOOD GRAIN RUNS IN A DIRECTION THAT SPLITS EASY ON THIS TYPE OF WOOD. PERHAPS ON THE ISLANDS WHERE THESE ARE MADE THERE ARE VERY FEW TREES STRAIGHT AND LARGE ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS SIZE AND FORM OF CLUB SO IT WAS THE ONLY LOGICAL CHOICE. OR PERHAPS THIS TREE HAD SOME SIGNIFICANCE IN SAMOAN SOCIETY SO WAS THE PREFERRED MATERIAL FOR THIS FORM OF CLUB.

I BELEAVE THIS FORM OF CLUB PREDATES CONTACT WITH EUROPEAN SOCIETY SO THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO OUTSIDE INFLUENCE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM. THE FIRE KNIFE AND CANE KNIFE EVOLVED FROM THIS FORM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. UNFORTUNATELY THEY LEFT OFF THE TEETH ON THE STEEL KNIVES BUT IT WOULD BEEN VERY COOL IF THEY HAD LEFT THEM ON.

2nd December 2010, 04:54 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Yes a massive gamble . It will be here soon. Provides us with a bit of entertainment But as Lew says there are pictures that hint, and in my mind quite strongly to a good age and patina. We will know soon. In the meantime here is some more information on Samoan clubs from "Samoan Art & Artists, University of Hawaii Press" The hair spliting on the function of the club does not bother me. One will know if made to knock brains out as soon as it is in your hands if you have had any form of martial arts or weapons training. I hope I can upload these extracts in the right order. Do look at the link about "Te Rangi Hiroa" http://www.natlib.govt.nz/collection...ter-henry-buck Attached Images

6th December 2010, 07:33 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Lady luck has been most obliging, smothering me with her charm. Not only is it very pleasant but arrived just as I got out of the car on my return from walking the dogs. The pictures are not the most subtle but it is dark outside. Huge old club. You can see considerable wear to the distall end. Is that through combat or dance? I could believe these are ceremonial dance clubs but also if used with two hands and having had a life spent swinging clubs they would also be powerful weapons. All I can say is that I would not want to be hit by either side of the club. Attached Images Last edited by Tim Simmons; 6th December 2010 at 07:55 PM. Reason: SPELLING Spelling

2nd December 2010, 08:52 AM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	A good resource for Samoan material things can be found [here]. [Here] is their article on nifo'oti type clubs. It would seem as if the wooden nifo'oti had less practical combat value than the metal bush-knives that were all the called the same... If I am not mistaken, Samoan fire-dancers still use blunt bladed flaming nifo'oti for their fire-dances. The bush knives can still be found in Fiji I think, but I have never been to Fiji and I am no expert.

6th December 2010, 08:04 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Just had a thought about the damaged teeth seen on these clubs. It is possible that it is nothing to do with an idea of weakness in combat but possibly all to do with damage after collection, knocking around as a simple curio?

6th December 2010, 09:02 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Thats a hell of a thing. Can we see it 'in hand'?

6th December 2010, 11:51 PM	#6
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Nice club Tim! Any chance of some of these being a development of the shark-tooth swords or vice versa, instead of whaling blades? This club looks a lot like a large jaw-bone...albeig not shark. Emanuel

7th December 2010, 02:28 AM	#7
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	CONGRADULATIONS TIM THATS A NICE ONE IT HAS GOOD PATINA AND WEAR AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE MISSING TEETH HAVE BEEN GONE A LONG TIME. I HAVE ACCIDENTLY BROKEN TEETH OFF ONE I OWN WHEN PUTTING IT INTO A STORAGE RACK AND WAS SURPRIZED AT HOW EASY IT WAS TO DO. VERY LITTLE FORCE WAS REQUIRED AS THE WOOD GRAIN RUNS IN A DIRECTION THAT SPLITS EASY ON THIS TYPE OF WOOD. PERHAPS ON THE ISLANDS WHERE THESE ARE MADE THERE ARE VERY FEW TREES STRAIGHT AND LARGE ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS SIZE AND FORM OF CLUB SO IT WAS THE ONLY LOGICAL CHOICE. OR PERHAPS THIS TREE HAD SOME SIGNIFICANCE IN SAMOAN SOCIETY SO WAS THE PREFERRED MATERIAL FOR THIS FORM OF CLUB. I BELEAVE THIS FORM OF CLUB PREDATES CONTACT WITH EUROPEAN SOCIETY SO THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO OUTSIDE INFLUENCE IN ITS ORIGINAL FORM. THE FIRE KNIFE AND CANE KNIFE EVOLVED FROM THIS FORM NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. UNFORTUNATELY THEY LEFT OFF THE TEETH ON THE STEEL KNIVES BUT IT WOULD BEEN VERY COOL IF THEY HAD LEFT THEM ON.