Help with (Moro Kris?)

kai · 27th November 2010, 01:58 AM

Welcome to the forum, Yanni!

What's the blade length? And, yes, sharp pics would be good: try taking them from a larger distance (macro mode if available) and crop/resize/sharpen the pics afterwards if needed.

The missing pommel (possibly of the kakatua style) can be replaced. You could get a newly carved one from Mindanao or ask Jose to lend a helping hand...

While the scabbard is Maguindanao, the blade does look Maranao, doesn't it, Jose?

Regards,
Kai

Yanni · 27th November 2010, 02:40 AM

Thank you much for your reply...
I am posting some better pictures. They are a bit clearer than the first.
Unfortunately, this is the best I can do with my equipment and ability.

Dimentions:
Blade length from the cane wrapped handle to the tip is 24-1/4"
The blade width at he widest part of the guard is 5-1/8"
The cane wrapped handle is 3-1/2"

Again, thank you,

Yanni

Battara · 28th November 2010, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

While the scabbard is Maguindanao, the blade does look Maranao, doesn't it, Jose?

Well, I know that some in the past have said this, but in later years I have some to the opinion that this is actually Maguindanao. There seems to be a subtle difference between what we know as Maguindanao and Maranao ganga "faces". I have without question always seen this type of face on Maguindanao shoulderless scabbards, but not the Maranao. This is why Kai I have started saying that this ganga "face" is Maguindano. Otherwise, I would agree with you. They are indeed very similar.

As far as okir is concerned, I have noticed that both groups use the same okir style and forms. If it weren't for the other subtleties, I would not be able to tell the difference at all.

BTW - normally I would have given my email privately, but Yanni your private message section is not working for me.

tunggulametung · 28th November 2010, 02:26 PM

Yanni, this is a very nice kris, there's something beyond words on this piece, I like it a lot. May I ask a question, is it stained? or the dark color comes from oiled surface rust? Why I ask is because it is likely the 'original' stain from the owner, and I'm still looking on how a Moro kris is ideally stained/look. As for restoration, I personally suggest rattan binding for the sheath and nothing further, it might be originally metal binding but rattan is easier to do with more guaranteed result/more natural look for the sheath at this condition. The pommel can be replaced but will change the overall look so must be taken with care before deciding (I also have a kris which loosing a pommel). My suggestion on this probably you don't want to fix it for sometime say 1-3 months after the pommel being carved and see if they really goes along well.

@ Battara: please enlighten me on how you identify the hilt wrapping as later and not original to this please? I might want to re-wrap a kris hilt in the near future and thought that I like how it is done on this piece but your comment disturb me somehow. Probably not traditional design?

Thanks

David · 28th November 2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

@ Battara: please enlighten me on how you identify the hilt wrapping as later and not original to this please? I might want to re-wrap a kris hilt in the near future and thought that I like how it is done on this piece but your comment disturb me somehow. Probably not traditional design?

I would be interested in knwing this as well José.
While this might very well not be the "original" wrap for this hilt (or even the original hilt for that matter) it looks to my eyes to be an indigenous job that has some age so i wouldn't change it at all. If it was a non traditional job done poorly by a Western collector i would change it, but i don't think that is the case here.

Sajen · 28th November 2010, 04:13 PM

Welcome to the forum Yanni,

agree with the others that this is a very nice kris. A careful restoration would be nice and I think that Jose can help you by this.

But I have the same question as Tunggulametung and David: Why do you think Jose that this isn't the original wrapping of the hilt? It seems to have a good age and patination.

Or do you think that it isn't the original hilt since the blade seems to be a datu chieftain blade and have had by time a other hilt?

Regards,

Detlef

t_c · 28th November 2010, 05:16 PM

Nice Kris Yanni.
I think I understand Battara's comment. IMHO this looks like a "field repair": "I don't have enough material or time to dress the handle properly, so I use what little I have." I think it's a nicely done older job, but I would image with all the work that went into the blade, the handle dress would be somewhat more lavish. The finishing touches of the handle don't match the craftsmanship of the blade.

Battara · 28th November 2010, 07:06 PM

I think t_c hit it on the head - old field repair. There is another rattan wrapping underneath and it is done in a different style of wrap than that above it.

It may also have had some pommel on top, although I don't think it was a kakatua pommel but something else, perhaps in silver and MOP that is often seen in these types of hilts. In fact, often there were strips of metal along the sides of this type of hilt as well. I would not be surprised if there were 2 that are covered in rattan at present.

And yes, everything on this, except the hilt, says datu class piece. Even on the scabbard there is evidence of metal bands that were once there.

27th November 2010, 02:40 AM	#2
Yanni Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4	Thank you much for your reply... I am posting some better pictures. They are a bit clearer than the first. Unfortunately, this is the best I can do with my equipment and ability. Dimentions: Blade length from the cane wrapped handle to the tip is 24-1/4" The blade width at he widest part of the guard is 5-1/8" The cane wrapped handle is 3-1/2" Again, thank you, Yanni Attached Images

27th November 2010, 01:58 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Welcome to the forum, Yanni! What's the blade length? And, yes, sharp pics would be good: try taking them from a larger distance (macro mode if available) and crop/resize/sharpen the pics afterwards if needed. The missing pommel (possibly of the kakatua style) can be replaced. You could get a newly carved one from Mindanao or ask Jose to lend a helping hand... While the scabbard is Maguindanao, the blade does look Maranao, doesn't it, Jose? Regards, Kai

28th November 2010, 02:26 PM	#4
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Yanni, this is a very nice kris, there's something beyond words on this piece, I like it a lot. May I ask a question, is it stained? or the dark color comes from oiled surface rust? Why I ask is because it is likely the 'original' stain from the owner, and I'm still looking on how a Moro kris is ideally stained/look. As for restoration, I personally suggest rattan binding for the sheath and nothing further, it might be originally metal binding but rattan is easier to do with more guaranteed result/more natural look for the sheath at this condition. The pommel can be replaced but will change the overall look so must be taken with care before deciding (I also have a kris which loosing a pommel). My suggestion on this probably you don't want to fix it for sometime say 1-3 months after the pommel being carved and see if they really goes along well. @ Battara: please enlighten me on how you identify the hilt wrapping as later and not original to this please? I might want to re-wrap a kris hilt in the near future and thought that I like how it is done on this piece but your comment disturb me somehow. Probably not traditional design? Thanks

28th November 2010, 04:13 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Welcome to the forum Yanni, agree with the others that this is a very nice kris. A careful restoration would be nice and I think that Jose can help you by this. But I have the same question as Tunggulametung and David: Why do you think Jose that this isn't the original wrapping of the hilt? It seems to have a good age and patination. Or do you think that it isn't the original hilt since the blade seems to be a datu chieftain blade and have had by time a other hilt? Regards, Detlef

28th November 2010, 05:16 PM	#7
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Nice Kris Yanni. I think I understand Battara's comment. IMHO this looks like a "field repair": "I don't have enough material or time to dress the handle properly, so I use what little I have." I think it's a nicely done older job, but I would image with all the work that went into the blade, the handle dress would be somewhat more lavish. The finishing touches of the handle don't match the craftsmanship of the blade.

28th November 2010, 07:06 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I think t_c hit it on the head - old field repair. There is another rattan wrapping underneath and it is done in a different style of wrap than that above it. It may also have had some pommel on top, although I don't think it was a kakatua pommel but something else, perhaps in silver and MOP that is often seen in these types of hilts. In fact, often there were strips of metal along the sides of this type of hilt as well. I would not be surprised if there were 2 that are covered in rattan at present. And yes, everything on this, except the hilt, says datu class piece. Even on the scabbard there is evidence of metal bands that were once there.