Moro Spear

[tunggulametung]

Thanks abang Jentayu, it really help me in shaping my second thought.

So I bring my self one more time here (to revise) my earlier post (I promise to stop after another post , unless I'm coming with something difinite). It goes something like:

Kaaklanal/Kaakanal/Kaakanad/Kaaknal tuk Hamsal
Nakarkan Datuk Hasim

bold=almost sure
maybe something like:
given/trusted to Hamsal after saving/to guard Datuk Hasim? (wild wild guess)

alternatively ofcourse there are two Datus, Hamsal and Hasim as mentioned before, or one Datu: Hasim, giving over/excanging over something

I believe we're close in term of how it sound, just need kind assistance from someone who can associate it into something meaningful.

Anyway, thanks for the space and being patience with my posts

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

I believe we're close in term of how it sound, just need kind assistance from someone who can associate it into something meaningful.

Tunggulametung, thank you for the translation. It's very interesting. As we say here in Manila, "salamat"

Eariler, I've asked two Filipino Muslim friends here in the Philippines to help in the translation. One is in the university, and the other is based in Mindanao. But I have not heard from them -- looks like they are having a hard time.

But with your translation, I don't think we need to wait for their comments. Thus, salamat once again. Best wishes.

[Battara]

Great points - these were actually lances not throwing spears.

I chime in with Lorenze in saying salamat for the hard work in translating.

[Gavin Nugent]

Great developments guys,

Tunggulametung, Big G, thank you for the translation teachings and notations added to the images and thank you to everyone who has taken an interest in trying to solve the mystery script on this blade.

Lorenz, the images shown in museum Lee's thread are nothing short of superb, the trip you made and the photos you took are invaluable and I have not forgotten images for you either. Of particular interest were the iron butt ends as seen on spears from other countries along with the example similar to Maurice's spear and even a blade shape similar to mine, it seems this museum has every option/angle covered...nice to see the Chinese polearms too.

Would it help further if I posted further images of the script from another angle?

thanks to all and may the force be with you too ;-)

[Gavin Nugent]

A little bump from the past.

I have turned up no more on this piece or an exacting translation but have on the Kampilan...more on that later.

Curious to know if anyone else following leads are able to offer anything further?

Gav

[mohd]

Hi Gavin and all the forum members,

I think the forum members especially Jentayu and Tunggulametung had already done great job in translating the scripts written on the blade of the Bangsamoro spear.
Anyhow I just want to contribute some little info that might be useful in addition to their works.
I don't know any of the Bangsamoro language (i.e. Bajau, Tausug, Illanun etc).
Anyhow the Bangsamoro language basically has a very strong resemblance with the Malay language (i.e. we shared words such as keris, golok, pisau, tumpul, sumbing, kota, batu, kerbau etc).
Even we Malay always consider the Bangsamoro as Malay of the Philippines.

Okay, let's proceed with the transliteration of the text written on the blade of the Bangsamoro spear.

The first line appear as بــجــاﻻن دتــوﺀ كــمــيــد
Or it might be بــجــاﻻن دتــوﺀ كــمــيـــل
It's transliteration is bjalan dtu' kmid or bjalan dtu' kmil.
In the current Malay spelling it should appear as bejalan Datu' Kamid or bejalan Datu' Kamil.
I only understand the words Datu' Kamid or Datu' Kamil who must be the name of a royal family or a ruler somewhere in Southern Philippines.
The words bejalan do carry meaning in Malay (i.e. walking) anyhow IMVHO it doesn't really relevance in this very particular phrase.
Bejalan might has a totally different meaning in the Bangsamoro language.
One thing, I prefer the first transliteration just because IMVHO the name of Kamid is more longer and widely used compare to Kamil which I consider as rather new in usage in South East Asia.

بـ ± b (i.e. it must be alphabet بـ ± b because alphabet تـ ± t, ثـ ± th, نـ ± n and يـ ± i very seldom to meet with the alphabet ـجـ ± j in Malay language group phonetically)
ـجـ ± j (i.e. it must be ـجـ ± j because it is more in the usage compare to ـحـ ± h and ـخـ ± kh in Malay language group)
ـا ± a
ﻻ‎ ± la
ن ± n (i.e. this alphabet ن ± n must be at the end of the word because it is just not right phonetically to have alphabet د ± d as the last one in any words in Malay language group)

د ± d (i.e. this alphabet د ± d must be the first alphabet of a new word in this particular text)
تـ ± t
ـو ± u
ﺀ ± ' [i.e. in the olden days it is a normal practices in Jawi to add ﺀ ± ' (i.e. hamzah) at the end (i.e. placed at the top of the used vowel alphabet) of the words to make it sound in between of a wovel sound and a k sound which carries totally different meanings such as datu' (i.e. rulers title) and datuk (grandfather) or bala' (i.e. disaster) and balak (i.e. logwood)]

كـ ± k
ـمـ ± m
ـيـ ± i
ـد ± d or ـل ± l (i.e. the alphabet actually looks more like ـل ± l but historically we seldom found name Kamil used among South East Asian Muslim during those olden days; personally I believe the alphabet is actually ـد ± d)

The second line appear as نــاكــر كــن دتــوﺀ حــاســم
Or it might be نــاكــد كــن دتــوﺀ حــاســم
It's transliteration is nakr kn dtu' hasm or nakd kn dtu' hasm.
In the current Malay spelling it should appear as nakarkan Datu' Hasim or nakadkan Datu' Hasim.
I only understand the words Datu' Hasim who must be of another royal family or a ruler in the Southern Philippines.
The words nakarkan or nakadkan do not carry meaning in Malay.

نـ ± n
ـا ± a (i.e. alphabet نـ ± n at the beginning of any word can not be written alone by itself; it must be followed by another alphabet)
كـ ± k
ـر ± r or ـد ± d (i.e. IMVHO here the writing of alphabet ـر ± r looks very closely similar to alphabet ـد ± d).

كـ ± k
ـن ± n

د ± d
تـ ± t
ـو ± u
ﺀ ± ' (i.e. kindly ref to my explanation on the same alphabet above)

حـ ± h
ـا ± a
سـ ± s
ـم ± m

In summary it seems the text is letting us know that the particular Bangsamoro spear in your custody was actualy got something to do with the life and the deed of two royal families or rulars somewhere in Southern Philippines by the name Datu' Kamid or Datu' Kamil and Datu' Hasim.
So sorry, this little info which I can offer you here, Gavin
It still has to be referred to any Bangsamoro language expert regarding the actual meaning of the text.

mohd

[tom hyle]

I've seen this same butt treatment on Chinese pole arms, and often with a flat ribbon attached. It even closely resembles a feature common on Tibetan phurbas (ritual spears)

[Gavin Nugent]

Mohd,

Thank you very much for your time and interest in offering your insight in to the writings found on this spear and adding to the wonderful works already provided by Jentayu and Tunggulametung, it is greatly appreciated and I know you spent quite a lot of your personal time doing so.

My thanks

Gavin