Real "ninja" sword, or modern invention?

fearn · 19th November 2010, 02:12 AM

Hi Vandoo,

I'll direct your attention to The Iga Ninja Museum, which, so far as I can determine, is genuine. It's an old ninja safe-house, retrofitted as a museum.

The bottom line is that there are authentic ninja weapons out there. That's why I figured it was worth asking around.

Best,

F

fearn · 19th November 2010, 05:01 AM

Actually, on the theme of genuine ninja swords, I believe that Masaaki Hatsumi (Togakure ryu soke) said that the sword carried by the Iga ninja was basically a wakizashi with a katana hilt, carried in a katana sheath. The shorter blade made for an unexpectedly fast draw and better fighting in close quarters.

Has anyone seen a sword of this type?

Best,

F

fearn · 19th November 2010, 06:59 PM

I hate posting three in a row, but I realize this morning that I'd ignored a couple of Vandoo's points.

The important one is that yes, it looks like a Montagnard dha, except for being two-edged. The question then is, how do you get from the highlands to Japan or Hawaii. Perhaps someone fighting in Vietnam saw one and/or brought one home as a souvenir? That would make it very modern.

To answer Vandoo's other question, AFAIK, the ninja were a mix. Some samurai went ninja, and I think some outcast samurai became the Iga and Koga ninjas. The Iga and Koga were effectively untouchables, outcasts (I think) who were hired to do the dishonorable jobs no samurai would officially touch.

The Saito ryu founding story has the Saito family being rural farmers who acquired their martial arts prowess through supernatural aid (see the link at the head of the thread), who then went on to defend their village against marauders for a thousand years, give or take. They explicitly deny any connection to the Iga and Koga ninja.

Other websites have attacked the Saito ryu's story. My take on the controversy is that their story would be more believable if there was an antique tengu sword in a collection somewhere. Based on the lack of historic documentation or old weapons, it looks like Saito Ryu is a relatively modern invention, complete with the tengu sword. But I could be wrong.

Best,

F

Best,

F

David R · 19th December 2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fearn

Actually, on the theme of genuine ninja swords, I believe that Masaaki Hatsumi (Togakure ryu soke) said that the sword carried by the Iga ninja was basically a wakizashi with a katana hilt, carried in a katana sheath. The shorter blade made for an unexpectedly fast draw and better fighting in close quarters.

Has anyone seen a sword of this type?

Best,

F

An old thread I know, and possibly superseded, but I came across this item on Usagiya and thought hmmm!

fearn · 19th December 2012, 04:00 PM

Could be. Is it terrible in the sense of ugly, or terrible in the sense of unusable? If it's ugly but quite functional, that's possibly an indicator.

Thanks for pointing this out.

Best,

F

David R · 19th December 2012, 04:57 PM

What I think is intriguing is that the blade fits the saya.....I have two wakizashi in original saya and 3 spare saya and none of them are interchangeable.
I can think of other reasons for this set up, poverty, aspiration or simply making an item more saleable, but it is interesting all the same in the light of the above.

Badkarma · 12th September 2021, 12:49 PM

Hi, I studied ninjitsu.. that is a tengu sword.. My master only had one pic.. but I'm glad to see another.. it's 2/3 handle, 1/3 blade.. the village of Fukushima was under attack, so someone went into the mountains, and sought help from a Tengu.. he gifted this sword, and taught him how to use it.. for me.. in my lessons.. it should seem like a staff.. and the only thing you see.. is a flash.. before death.. this was because of the quick uncovering of the sword, or unsheathing.. while most samurais at the time, took a bit longer to withdraw there long bladed sword, Tengus gave us the gift of speed.. coupled with extreme intent and accuracy.. you can see why we can overcome samurais in an instant.. <3

Ian · 13th September 2021, 02:40 PM

Badkarma,

Welcome to the Forum!

Thank you for diving into the archives to find this old thread and provide an update.

12th September 2021, 12:49 PM	#7
Badkarma Member Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 1	Tengu Sword, the Real Story Hi, I studied ninjitsu.. that is a tengu sword.. My master only had one pic.. but I'm glad to see another.. it's 2/3 handle, 1/3 blade.. the village of Fukushima was under attack, so someone went into the mountains, and sought help from a Tengu.. he gifted this sword, and taught him how to use it.. for me.. in my lessons.. it should seem like a staff.. and the only thing you see.. is a flash.. before death.. this was because of the quick uncovering of the sword, or unsheathing.. while most samurais at the time, took a bit longer to withdraw there long bladed sword, Tengus gave us the gift of speed.. coupled with extreme intent and accuracy.. you can see why we can overcome samurais in an instant.. <3

19th November 2010, 02:12 AM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Vandoo, I'll direct your attention to The Iga Ninja Museum, which, so far as I can determine, is genuine. It's an old ninja safe-house, retrofitted as a museum. The bottom line is that there are authentic ninja weapons out there. That's why I figured it was worth asking around. Best, F

19th November 2010, 05:01 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Actually, on the theme of genuine ninja swords, I believe that Masaaki Hatsumi (Togakure ryu soke) said that the sword carried by the Iga ninja was basically a wakizashi with a katana hilt, carried in a katana sheath. The shorter blade made for an unexpectedly fast draw and better fighting in close quarters. Has anyone seen a sword of this type? Best, F

19th November 2010, 06:59 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I hate posting three in a row, but I realize this morning that I'd ignored a couple of Vandoo's points. The important one is that yes, it looks like a Montagnard dha, except for being two-edged. The question then is, how do you get from the highlands to Japan or Hawaii. Perhaps someone fighting in Vietnam saw one and/or brought one home as a souvenir? That would make it very modern. To answer Vandoo's other question, AFAIK, the ninja were a mix. Some samurai went ninja, and I think some outcast samurai became the Iga and Koga ninjas. The Iga and Koga were effectively untouchables, outcasts (I think) who were hired to do the dishonorable jobs no samurai would officially touch. The Saito ryu founding story has the Saito family being rural farmers who acquired their martial arts prowess through supernatural aid (see the link at the head of the thread), who then went on to defend their village against marauders for a thousand years, give or take. They explicitly deny any connection to the Iga and Koga ninja. Other websites have attacked the Saito ryu's story. My take on the controversy is that their story would be more believable if there was an antique tengu sword in a collection somewhere. Based on the lack of historic documentation or old weapons, it looks like Saito Ryu is a relatively modern invention, complete with the tengu sword. But I could be wrong. Best, F Best, F

19th December 2012, 04:00 PM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Could be. Is it terrible in the sense of ugly, or terrible in the sense of unusable? If it's ugly but quite functional, that's possibly an indicator. Thanks for pointing this out. Best, F

19th December 2012, 04:57 PM	#6
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,120	What I think is intriguing is that the blade fits the saya.....I have two wakizashi in original saya and 3 spare saya and none of them are interchangeable. I can think of other reasons for this set up, poverty, aspiration or simply making an item more saleable, but it is interesting all the same in the light of the above.

13th September 2021, 02:40 PM	#8
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,399	Badkarma, Welcome to the Forum! Thank you for diving into the archives to find this old thread and provide an update.