Help IDing some British and European firearms

RDGAC · 7th October 2010, 05:02 PM

Egad, replies! Well, without further ado, the second pistol and the smaller of the two; some close-ups for you chaps. Plus, a new and better photo of the upper pistol's lockplate, which I read as saying "Bayley & Co.", and anm illustration of the barrel toward the breech end. I can find no proof marks at all, but haven't yet pulled the barrel on this weapon (or indeed either of them), so hidden marks might yet await us.

RDGAC · 7th October 2010, 05:04 PM

And the Bayley gun. Michael, if you can see any traces of the hypothesised horn end cap in the two photos above of the Richards pistol's muzzle, please point them out. Part of the deal here is that I get both the pleasure of handling these weapons and the chance to learn more about them.

Matchlock · 7th October 2010, 05:11 PM

Proof and hallmarks are never inside or on the underside of anywhere.

I marked both the Birmingham proof mark in its pre-1813 version and the place of the missing fore end cap.

m

RDGAC · 7th October 2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Proof and hallmarks are never inside or on the underside of anywhere.

I marked both the Birmingham proof mark in its pre-1813 version and the place of the missing fore end cap.

m

Indeed, I have never known a mark designed to be seen by the user to be hidden; nonetheless, when uncertain I find it sensible not to discount possibilities based only on what I know. Not a few times have I been caught out by that habit. The supposition may appear foolish but is generally the result of my desire to eliminate it. Cautious should be my middle name...

Anyway, thanks for marking the two things you did. Oddly I can't see much in the way of physical evidence for an end cap, save a very small protrusion just forward of the stock and ever so slightly proud of the barrel surface. Anything in particular to look for?

Matchlock · 7th October 2010, 05:47 PM

The wooden fore end has broken off along with the cap. Those pistols always were fully stocked. Just look at the other specimen which too is fully stocked but, as it is much later, never had a cap.

m

Matchlock · 7th October 2010, 07:26 PM

See?

RDGAC · 4th November 2010, 09:51 AM

Indeed I do see, Michael. Thank you for pointing that out. Since these two have to go back into their display case soon, I just want to clear one thing more up: am I correct in thinking there were no issued, Pattern pistols for British Army infantry officers at this point in time, i.e. the late 18th-early 19th centuries?

7th October 2010, 05:02 PM	#1
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Egad, replies! Well, without further ado, the second pistol and the smaller of the two; some close-ups for you chaps. Plus, a new and better photo of the upper pistol's lockplate, which I read as saying "Bayley & Co.", and anm illustration of the barrel toward the breech end. I can find no proof marks at all, but haven't yet pulled the barrel on this weapon (or indeed either of them), so hidden marks might yet await us. Attached Images

7th October 2010, 05:04 PM	#2
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	And the Bayley gun. Michael, if you can see any traces of the hypothesised horn end cap in the two photos above of the Richards pistol's muzzle, please point them out. Part of the deal here is that I get both the pleasure of handling these weapons and the chance to learn more about them. Attached Images

7th October 2010, 05:11 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Proof and hallmarks are never inside or on the underside of anywhere. I marked both the Birmingham proof mark in its pre-1813 version and the place of the missing fore end cap. m Attached Images

7th October 2010, 07:26 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	See? Attached Images

7th October 2010, 05:47 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	The wooden fore end has broken off along with the cap. Those pistols always were fully stocked. Just look at the other specimen which too is fully stocked but, as it is much later, never had a cap. m

4th November 2010, 09:51 AM	#7
RDGAC Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: York, UK Posts: 167	Indeed I do see, Michael. Thank you for pointing that out. Since these two have to go back into their display case soon, I just want to clear one thing more up: am I correct in thinking there were no issued, Pattern pistols for British Army infantry officers at this point in time, i.e. the late 18th-early 19th centuries?