Old File Bladed shibriya for comment

broadaxe · 30th September 2010, 12:28 AM

Armenians came to the middle east as refugees and there is a famous weapon shop in Amman, led by an Armenian silversmiths family. They use Armenian motifs and methods over the local weapons.
Circassian (Adyga) families were brought by the Ottoman Turks into the middle east during the 1870's to serve as border guards, they kept their traditional weapons, the khma and sha-squa.

spiral · 30th September 2010, 10:14 AM

Thank you Broadaxe, fascinating info!

On my file bladed one, there are also 2 rings on the scabbard as well as the belt loop, i always assumed these were either for added ties to the belt or so it could be attached to a baldric or shoulder belt, I know am wondering if the would have been for added decorations as well?

Also is it possible to estimate the Armenian style niello one? I was told it was collected in Egyption territory by a British serviceman along with an old sword & kukri in around 1947? But have no evidence to support or refute it.

Have you any examples to share? Would be nice to see others.

Spiral

broadaxe · 30th September 2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Thank you Broadaxe, fascinating info! not a problem, we are here to share.
On my file bladed one, there are also 2 rings on the scabbard as well as the belt loop, i always assumed these were either for added ties to the belt or so it could be attached to a baldric or shoulder belt, I know am wondering if the would have been for added decorations as well? From what I know, the things vary. You can find them both or just seperated, while you can also find more side rings, up to 3 pairs (= 6 rings a lot). I believe this gave way to flexibility in affixing the knife, as some folks used leather belt, some used woven baldric (on the waists like a belt, across the shoulder reserved only for swords here) and some laced the knife permanently into their batlle harness.

Also is it possible to estimate the Armenian style niello one? If you talk about the one entirely cladded in nielloed silver it goes towards the higher end of shabriyas . I was told it was collected in Egyption territory by a British serviceman along with an old sword & kukri in around 1947? But have no evidence to support or refute it. It is possible, could be the Sinai desert. The enire region was a large battlefield during the fall of WWI. Kukries are to be found, although rarely, becauuse there were three British/Indian batallions involved. The type of the sword would have been a great source of further information. Just remember that after WWI there was the Arab revolt of 1936-9, then WWII which put some less stress over that region (minor battles), but from 1947 to 1949 the whole place was in flames due our Independence War.
Have you any examples to share? Would be nice to see others.

I do not collect them but occasionaly own one or two, just because the local interest. I handled, though, maybe hundreds of all kinds and conditions. Posting now a photo of the last one I traded off about a month ago, will take photos of two other which are for a keep. BTW, that particular shape is to be found only in Jordan, Israel and the Sinai.
Spiral

The shabriya in my photo is an old one with a good blade (not from a file though), hilt is horn and the most thing is wrapped in thin silver sheet.

spiral · 30th September 2010, 05:42 PM

Thanks Broadaxe, by estimate I did mean the date but thank for the other information anyway. Due to forum rules can I suggest you delete the other estimate?

Fascinating stuff, the sword was a 18th centry european blade in a handle that appeared made of of military radio or rader type fittings & silver wire.

Sadley I no longer have it.

Thanks for the photo, look forward to the others, I guess the horn would be goat?

Thanks for the information on these type of knives, it is great to know more about them.

Spiral

broadaxe · 30th September 2010, 10:05 PM

An older sword blade fitted with a makeshift handle of salvaged material at hand - sounds exactly period Bedouin-like.
The grip material on that silver shabriya is sheep horn. Goat, sheep and sometimes bovine horn grips are to be found, unless it is fitted with sheet metal over wooden core. Interesting enough, post WWII shabriyas somtimes have plastic grips, taken from military junk - I had one large shabriya with a file blade and black dense plastic grip sometimes ago. The finest, older shabriyas had ivory-like grips, made of heavy camel bones; these are realy hard to encounter, less than 1%.

Atlantia · 30th September 2010, 10:23 PM

This is indeed a great thread, bravo gentlemen.

spiral · 3rd October 2010, 09:56 AM

Definatly a great thread Gene!

Thank you again for the information Broadaxe. Ive seen so little info about these generaly.

Re-reading it I see the Armenian comment was about Genes silver piece not mine. Does that mean mine is more likly Circassion in style perhaps?

What are the earliest known examples of these? Ive wondered if the shape was derived from the tip of French Yataghan bayonets? Is anything known about the origins of the Shibriya?

Spiral

30th September 2010, 12:28 AM	#1
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Armenians came to the middle east as refugees and there is a famous weapon shop in Amman, led by an Armenian silversmiths family. They use Armenian motifs and methods over the local weapons. Circassian (Adyga) families were brought by the Ottoman Turks into the middle east during the 1870's to serve as border guards, they kept their traditional weapons, the khma and sha-squa.

30th September 2010, 10:14 AM	#2
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thank you Broadaxe, fascinating info! On my file bladed one, there are also 2 rings on the scabbard as well as the belt loop, i always assumed these were either for added ties to the belt or so it could be attached to a baldric or shoulder belt, I know am wondering if the would have been for added decorations as well? Also is it possible to estimate the Armenian style niello one? I was told it was collected in Egyption territory by a British serviceman along with an old sword & kukri in around 1947? But have no evidence to support or refute it. Have you any examples to share? Would be nice to see others. Spiral

30th September 2010, 05:42 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Thanks Broadaxe, by estimate I did mean the date but thank for the other information anyway. Due to forum rules can I suggest you delete the other estimate? Fascinating stuff, the sword was a 18th centry european blade in a handle that appeared made of of military radio or rader type fittings & silver wire. Sadley I no longer have it. Thanks for the photo, look forward to the others, I guess the horn would be goat? Thanks for the information on these type of knives, it is great to know more about them. Spiral

30th September 2010, 10:05 PM	#5
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	An older sword blade fitted with a makeshift handle of salvaged material at hand - sounds exactly period Bedouin-like. The grip material on that silver shabriya is sheep horn. Goat, sheep and sometimes bovine horn grips are to be found, unless it is fitted with sheet metal over wooden core. Interesting enough, post WWII shabriyas somtimes have plastic grips, taken from military junk - I had one large shabriya with a file blade and black dense plastic grip sometimes ago. The finest, older shabriyas had ivory-like grips, made of heavy camel bones; these are realy hard to encounter, less than 1%.

30th September 2010, 10:23 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	This is indeed a great thread, bravo gentlemen.

3rd October 2010, 09:56 AM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Definatly a great thread Gene! Thank you again for the information Broadaxe. Ive seen so little info about these generaly. Re-reading it I see the Armenian comment was about Genes silver piece not mine. Does that mean mine is more likly Circassion in style perhaps? What are the earliest known examples of these? Ive wondered if the shape was derived from the tip of French Yataghan bayonets? Is anything known about the origins of the Shibriya? Spiral