Moro Spear

Maurice · 25th September 2010, 07:53 AM

Gav,

A box of moro budiaks/spears had been opened on the forum.

I also would like to know the exact differences between budiaks and spears or whatever to call them, mostly with reference of old books, articles.
I always assumed that any moro spear's name was budiak.
But it seems, as Battara stated in one of the other mails, that it need to have that chiseled area to be called a budiak. Or did I misunderstood?

I can't wait seeing this blade cleaned!
Wonder if we could read what the text is saying....
Absolutely a great addition to your Pershing kampilan, and they would be an attractive display for sure.

Maurice

Gavin Nugent · 25th September 2010, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

Gav,

A box of moro budiaks/spears had been opened on the forum.

I also would like to know the exact differences between budiaks and spears or whatever to call them, mostly with reference of old books, articles.
I always assumed that any moro spear's name was budiak.
But it seems, as Battara stated in one of the other mails, that it need to have that chiseled area to be called a budiak. Or did I misunderstood?

I can't wait seeing this blade cleaned!
Wonder if we could read what the text is saying....
Absolutely a great addition to your Pershing kampilan, and they would be an attractive display for sure.

Maurice

Thats a long box to fit them all in Maurice.

I finally took the plunge after you got the other one that has been discussed

Kinda wish I had a light pen and board here, I'd trace over the script to present it and see what it read...just have to wait.

I'm really keen to see what a fully complete piece feels like in the hand and also if anyone can provide feedback on the rings and if cloth was attached like their other weapons of war...

I got the shock of my life last week too, during Alex's B'day party, Rose was giving many guests the grand tour of arms, not a bad job of it either, as she notes to me often, "I know way more than I should" about the swords but has no reservations to more items like this appearing...should I be worried or what

I think there must be a honey can I have coming soon....

Gav

Rick · 25th September 2010, 03:35 PM

Hi Gav,

Try rubbing a bit of flour into the markings; that should make them more legible .

I've never seen one of these with inscriptions or marks .

Should clean up nicely .
Nice score .

Sajen · 25th September 2010, 04:06 PM

Hi Gav,

very nice and complete twist core budiak. Would be nice to see it with cleaned and etched blade. I am curious what the inscription saying.

Rick · 25th September 2010, 04:35 PM

" When one considers Chinese martial applications of the spear, men who mastered the spear where considered cool under fire and never hand sweaty palms. One application was to hold the spear base and thrust it through the other hand like a bullet through a barrel. It I was to draw this paralell, would the Moro warriors have had cloth bound through the butt rings and their hands much like a Keris or Kampalin that has cloth remaining to the hilts?"

Wouldn't one have to drop his Taming in order to fight succesfully in this manner ?

Spears on the ground .

CharlesS · 25th September 2010, 04:55 PM

According to Stone the budiak's distinction is the chieselled panel/s that give the spear blade within a spear blade effect.

But do we all agree with that?

Regardless, this is a fantastic example and should clean up dramatically.

Battara · 25th September 2010, 05:55 PM

I would agree with Stone's so far. Twistcores seem to come in budiak and non-budiak styles. There has been some speculation that the butts with loops like these had rope at the end for retrieval.

A clean up, nice polish, and etching would really bring this nice piece out.

Congratulations!

Gavin Nugent · 27th September 2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Hi Gav,

Try rubbing a bit of flour into the markings; that should make them more legible .

I've never seen one of these with inscriptions or marks .

Should clean up nicely .
Nice score .

Thanks Rick and a great suggestion, once in hand I'll do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hi Gav,

very nice and complete twist core budiak. Would be nice to see it with cleaned and etched blade. I am curious what the inscription saying.

Thank you Detlef, I am sure the expertise here will eventually solve the translation mystery when I provide better images upon receipt of the spear in a few weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Wouldn't one have to drop his Taming in order to fight succesfully in this manner

Spears on the ground .

Indeed, indeed Rick, though it begs me to ask, other than staged fighting such as this, would a warrior have a weapon of choice and use it to the death were applicable, I only ask as there have been numerous documented accounts of the barong and keris single handedly used to dispatch US soldiers in the day. The dramatic portrayals to not mention that they swapped and changed weapons in life and death combat.....they Moro warrior simply had a weapon of choice, faced off and that was that???

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

According to Stone the budiak's distinction is the chieselled panel/s that give the spear blade within a spear blade effect.

But do we all agree with that?

Regardless, this is a fantastic example and should clean up dramatically.

Thanks Charles. I tend to agree with the Budiak being having sectioned heads as being discussed in the other links but then I look at this one and although not sectioned the same as Maurice and Lee's, it does appear to be scalloped out over the twistcore section and not being a full elipticatal cross section....Mysteries I am not fully versed in hence my question...what is what and when it it what...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

I would agree with Stone's so far. Twistcores seem to come in budiak and non-budiak styles. There has been some speculation that the butts with loops like these had rope at the end for retrieval.

A clean up, nice polish, and etching would really bring this nice piece out.

Congratulations!

Thanks Battara.

I look forward to adding to this in a few weeks, my early Christmas present to myself.

Gav

Rick · 27th September 2010, 01:14 AM

" Indeed, indeed Rick, though it begs me to ask, other than staged fighting such as this, would a warrior have a weapon of choice and use it to the death were applicable, I only ask as there have been numerous documented accounts of the barong and keris single handedly used to dispatch US soldiers in the day. The dramatic portrayals to not mention that they swapped and changed weapons in life and death combat.....they Moro warrior simply had a weapon of choice, faced off and that was that???"

I think we can all agree that this was a weapon not meant to be thrown once and picked up after the fight .

Except ...
During the attacks on the cottas all manner of weapons were hurled at the American forces as they closed in .
I have a hard time accepting that spears like these were thrown away once unless in desperation .

One Warrior in this picture carries a Kris .

25th September 2010, 04:35 PM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	" When one considers Chinese martial applications of the spear, men who mastered the spear where considered cool under fire and never hand sweaty palms. One application was to hold the spear base and thrust it through the other hand like a bullet through a barrel. It I was to draw this paralell, would the Moro warriors have had cloth bound through the butt rings and their hands much like a Keris or Kampalin that has cloth remaining to the hilts?" Wouldn't one have to drop his Taming in order to fight succesfully in this manner ? Spears on the ground . Attached Images

27th September 2010, 01:14 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	" Indeed, indeed Rick, though it begs me to ask, other than staged fighting such as this, would a warrior have a weapon of choice and use it to the death were applicable, I only ask as there have been numerous documented accounts of the barong and keris single handedly used to dispatch US soldiers in the day. The dramatic portrayals to not mention that they swapped and changed weapons in life and death combat.....they Moro warrior simply had a weapon of choice, faced off and that was that???" I think we can all agree that this was a weapon not meant to be thrown once and picked up after the fight . Except ... During the attacks on the cottas all manner of weapons were hurled at the American forces as they closed in . I have a hard time accepting that spears like these were thrown away once unless in desperation . One Warrior in this picture carries a Kris . Attached Images

25th September 2010, 07:53 AM	#1
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Gav, A box of moro budiaks/spears had been opened on the forum. I also would like to know the exact differences between budiaks and spears or whatever to call them, mostly with reference of old books, articles. I always assumed that any moro spear's name was budiak. But it seems, as Battara stated in one of the other mails, that it need to have that chiseled area to be called a budiak. Or did I misunderstood? I can't wait seeing this blade cleaned! Wonder if we could read what the text is saying.... Absolutely a great addition to your Pershing kampilan, and they would be an attractive display for sure. Maurice

25th September 2010, 03:35 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Hi Gav, Try rubbing a bit of flour into the markings; that should make them more legible . I've never seen one of these with inscriptions or marks . Should clean up nicely . Nice score .

25th September 2010, 04:06 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,207	Hi Gav, very nice and complete twist core budiak. Would be nice to see it with cleaned and etched blade. I am curious what the inscription saying.

25th September 2010, 04:55 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	According to Stone the budiak's distinction is the chieselled panel/s that give the spear blade within a spear blade effect. But do we all agree with that? Regardless, this is a fantastic example and should clean up dramatically.

25th September 2010, 05:55 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I would agree with Stone's so far. Twistcores seem to come in budiak and non-budiak styles. There has been some speculation that the butts with loops like these had rope at the end for retrieval. A clean up, nice polish, and etching would really bring this nice piece out. Congratulations!