Hunting Tigers with Katars: Fact or fiction?

stephen wood · 22nd September 2010, 04:51 PM

Emanuel · 22nd September 2010, 05:08 PM

I recall jamadhars with hunting scenes depicting tigers and lions. If such blades are representative of hunting weapons then perhaps these daggers were in the arsenal of hunters. Probably used much like hunting swords and daggers in Europe though to finish off wounded animals. Packs of dogs would probably be the main hunting weapon against tigers, bears, antelopes, whatever.

As an aside, I finally get Baloo's name in the Jungle Book, Bhalu=bear, simple.

Emanuel

asomotif · 23rd September 2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

I finally get Baloo's name in the Jungle Book

A katar as a "bear necessity" in hunting

Interesting theory, but if hunting tigers with katars was something remotely seriously practiced, I am sure it would have been depicted somewhere.
Imagine a hurt and/or angry tiger and maybe 10 till 20 inches of wootz between you and him.
The tiger would probably rip your head of even if you would wound him deadly.
It is like a big cat. If they really start to rumble you need slow motion to follow them.

Ps, bumped into some odd pictures while googling for "big cat fight"

David · 23rd September 2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wood

interesting

Thanks Stephen. I LOVE the Bonzo Dog Band!

wepnz · 2nd October 2010, 04:51 AM

I remembered someone had posted this picture of stone relief of a tiger being stabbed by katar. however the stabber seems to have other help (as suggested by others) and the tiger would seem to still be able to do major damage if the katar alone were used (seeing as how its gone right through the guys stuck with the tiger now). Also the katar seems to be the south indian hooded type, which are longer and have some guard protection.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...72&postcount=6

laEspadaAncha · 2nd October 2010, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wepnz

I remembered someone had posted this picture of stone relief of a tiger being stabbed by katar. however the stabber seems to have other help (as suggested by others) and the tiger would seem to still be able to do major damage if the katar alone were used (seeing as how its gone right through the guys stuck with the tiger now). Also the katar seems to be the south indian hooded type, which are longer and have some guard protection.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...72&postcount=6

Great catch...

In fact, this particular carving depicts two warriors, one armed with a katar in each hand, and both engaging the tiger simultaneously.

The temple carving dates to the 16th Century and is located in Srirangam in central Tamil Nadu.

Here's a repost of the pics for reference:

Atlantia · 2nd October 2010, 05:45 PM

It is indeed a great catch! Bravo Wepnz!!

And interesting to see the form of the Katars with hoods and long blades (of short sword proportions!)

archer · 3rd October 2010, 02:34 AM

Emanuel, I ran across this scene last week appears to be someone having a bad day. Pant and Paul mention Jamadhar Swords (Katar swords) 2-3 feet in length. Then there are the Patta Swords up to five feet in length. "Capable of severing a bullocks neck in the right expert hands". One Indian Royal was said to have been so proficient with his katar that he had killed a number of elephant. Fact or fiction I don't know. Mindset and practice can make for fearless people.

Steve

ORDOVICES · 25th January 2011, 06:47 PM

Dear all

Travelling in northern India many years ago, in one of the major forts, perhaps Jaipur or Jodphur, we were told by the curator of the museum how the Rajput princes would hunt tigers for sport. Firstly they would corral the tiger. This would involve beaters using noise and thousands of metres of cloth to create a “wall” the tiger would turn away from, to bring it to bay. When finally the tiger was cornered, the prince would dismount, and engage the tiger in one-to-one combat.
It seems to our modern sensibilities a foolhardy pursuit but perhaps not as improbable as it first appears. What has not been mentioned is that the prince would be wearing armour. Yes, the cat might be extremely dangerous but the prince would not be in immediate danger of being gutted or de-limbed. (Crushed, broken, face bitten off still an exciting possibility however!) He would also have many armed helpers.
This was also my first introduction to the Katara. It seems to me the perfect weapon of choice to fight a biting animal because of the wrist guards; present a protected limb and then stab underneath. Pure conjecture on my part of course.
With regards to the mind-set of these martial and marital glory-seeking princes, please consider the following story recorded on a plaque on wall on one of these forts. This particular fort gatehouse had a thick block of glass set in it, presumably as a view point. During a conflict, a prince, encamped outside the fort, on being taunted that he would never be able to take said gatehouse, wrapped an extra turban round his head, charged the gate and attacked it with a flying head-butt. He successfully cracked the block of glass along with his head. I am sorry to say that I cannot remember the full details of what happened after apart from his demise. Not the actions of someone concerned with their long term political future methinks.
So did they fight tigers? I believe so. I am only writing this because so many seemed to think it so highly unlikely.
With regards to the original question I would guess the odds were stacked against the tiger. Chased for days, hungry, thirsty, disorientated, cornered then finally confronted by a armoured rajput nutter intent on stabbing it to death, no doubt backed up by an array of spear wielding helpers if it did get the upper hand. Poor thing.

Battara · 26th January 2011, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wood

interesting

So that's how you hunt tigers! I always wondered.......

3rd October 2010, 02:34 AM	#8
archer Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 373	Man hunting or man hunted Emanuel, I ran across this scene last week appears to be someone having a bad day. Pant and Paul mention Jamadhar Swords (Katar swords) 2-3 feet in length. Then there are the Patta Swords up to five feet in length. "Capable of severing a bullocks neck in the right expert hands". One Indian Royal was said to have been so proficient with his katar that he had killed a number of elephant. Fact or fiction I don't know. Mindset and practice can make for fearless people. Steve Attached Images

22nd September 2010, 04:51 PM	#1
stephen wood Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 227	interesting

22nd September 2010, 05:08 PM	#2
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	I recall jamadhars with hunting scenes depicting tigers and lions. If such blades are representative of hunting weapons then perhaps these daggers were in the arsenal of hunters. Probably used much like hunting swords and daggers in Europe though to finish off wounded animals. Packs of dogs would probably be the main hunting weapon against tigers, bears, antelopes, whatever. As an aside, I finally get Baloo's name in the Jungle Book, Bhalu=bear, simple. Emanuel

2nd October 2010, 04:51 AM	#5
wepnz Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5	I remembered someone had posted this picture of stone relief of a tiger being stabbed by katar. however the stabber seems to have other help (as suggested by others) and the tiger would seem to still be able to do major damage if the katar alone were used (seeing as how its gone right through the guys stuck with the tiger now). Also the katar seems to be the south indian hooded type, which are longer and have some guard protection. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...72&postcount=6

2nd October 2010, 05:45 PM	#7
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	It is indeed a great catch! Bravo Wepnz!! And interesting to see the form of the Katars with hoods and long blades (of short sword proportions!)

25th January 2011, 06:47 PM	#9
ORDOVICES Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1	Dear all Travelling in northern India many years ago, in one of the major forts, perhaps Jaipur or Jodphur, we were told by the curator of the museum how the Rajput princes would hunt tigers for sport. Firstly they would corral the tiger. This would involve beaters using noise and thousands of metres of cloth to create a “wall” the tiger would turn away from, to bring it to bay. When finally the tiger was cornered, the prince would dismount, and engage the tiger in one-to-one combat. It seems to our modern sensibilities a foolhardy pursuit but perhaps not as improbable as it first appears. What has not been mentioned is that the prince would be wearing armour. Yes, the cat might be extremely dangerous but the prince would not be in immediate danger of being gutted or de-limbed. (Crushed, broken, face bitten off still an exciting possibility however!) He would also have many armed helpers. This was also my first introduction to the Katara. It seems to me the perfect weapon of choice to fight a biting animal because of the wrist guards; present a protected limb and then stab underneath. Pure conjecture on my part of course. With regards to the mind-set of these martial and marital glory-seeking princes, please consider the following story recorded on a plaque on wall on one of these forts. This particular fort gatehouse had a thick block of glass set in it, presumably as a view point. During a conflict, a prince, encamped outside the fort, on being taunted that he would never be able to take said gatehouse, wrapped an extra turban round his head, charged the gate and attacked it with a flying head-butt. He successfully cracked the block of glass along with his head. I am sorry to say that I cannot remember the full details of what happened after apart from his demise. Not the actions of someone concerned with their long term political future methinks. So did they fight tigers? I believe so. I am only writing this because so many seemed to think it so highly unlikely. With regards to the original question I would guess the odds were stacked against the tiger. Chased for days, hungry, thirsty, disorientated, cornered then finally confronted by a armoured rajput nutter intent on stabbing it to death, no doubt backed up by an array of spear wielding helpers if it did get the upper hand. Poor thing.