Solomon, Hawaiian or????

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice array of images Vandoo.

I think the new Ireland image is closest thus far in design but the Solomons club previously is closest by design....very ponderous indeed considering how close the regions really are to each other.....

Gav

[fearn]

Another thing I'd point out is nose shape: Melanesians tend to have long, arrow-like noses, and they tend to emphasize nose shape in their art. This is not a hard-and-fast rule, but it seems to hold true for their art, at least as far as I know.

Gav's club has a rounder nose, perhaps more Polynesian or Asian. But as Vandoo noted, those sunburst/eyelashed eyes aren't oceanic in a traditional sense, nor is the spear coming at the mouth. As for the spear going into the mouth? That's just odd.

I'm afraid I'm still thinking more modern on this one.

Best,

F

[Gavin Nugent]

The Mystery continues Fearn, modern comes with many different ideas too.
WWII is by my standards considered modern history, the period I feel this comes from. Modern by others standard differ greatly I am sure.

Casting out a total speculation theory, which is half the fun of this unknown stuff, with regards to the design, if indeed from the Solomon regions, the Japanese and allied forces were ever present and painting and design elements such at this were seen on allied aircraft and no doubt other vehicles etc etc.
Perhaps this is an influence from being exposed to these things...perhaps seeing a gun at work for the first time and not knowning that they do not shoot arrows, this was carved with intent to protect from the lightning fast arrows these weapons shot....just thinking outside of the square...

Fearn, where do you think this is from and where do you think it dates?

Gav

[fearn]

If I had to guess, I'd say post-WWII Hawaii or similar western place. To me, the face looks like a sketch from someone who had some western art training. The club looks like it was made from a plank. I'd also say that the butt end is not well designed, in that it forces the user to hold the club near an anti-node. If the blade is hit, I would guess that the handle would vibrate quite a bit.

As for the wear marks, it could indeed have been used, but that use could equally have come from someone goofing around. I've got some things that now look like they went through a war. They didn't--I was just a dumb teenager seeing what I could cut and/or bash.

That's my opinion, I'm afraid. In this case, I'm hoping that the evidence says I'm wrong.

Best,

F

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by fearn

If I had to guess, I'd say post-WWII Hawaii or similar western place. To me, the face looks like a sketch from someone who had some western art training. The club looks like it was made from a plank. I'd also say that the butt end is not well designed, in that it forces the user to hold the club near an anti-node. If the blade is hit, I would guess that the handle would vibrate quite a bit.

As for the wear marks, it could indeed have been used, but that use could equally have come from someone goofing around. I've got some things that now look like they went through a war. They didn't--I was just a dumb teenager seeing what I could cut and/or bash.

That's my opinion, I'm afraid. In this case, I'm hoping that the evidence says I'm wrong.

Best,

F

Thanks Fearn. I'll get some more data on the piece for you and draw some comparative data from the other clubs I have here too.
To question further though, post WWII is some 65 years, care to provide a little more accuracy to the comment?
Indeed the art in my eye could be revival school at face value...more reading and looking to do.
However when comparing this to other images above in loose design I am not so sure.
Vandoo the black and white Bismark plate above, do you know when they date from? I ask as when drawing paralells these too could be considered post WWII....still pondering...I am sure a reader out there knows more detail...feel free to write ;-)

Gav

[VANDOO]

I WOULD GUESS 1920'S THRU 1940'S. FOR THE B&W PLATE THERE WAS A LOT OF INTREST IN THE SOUTH SEA ISLANDS DURING THAT PERIOD. MANY STUDIES AND BOOKS BY ANTROPOLOGISTS FROM MANY COUNTRYS WERE DONE THEN AND QUITE A FEW EVEN EARLIER. MANY MUSEUMS PUT TOGETHER THEIR COLLECTIONS DURING THOSE EXPIDITIONS AND STUDYS. MANY ARTHORS ALSO TRAVELED AND WROTE ADVENTURE BOOKS DURING THAT ERA AS THE EXOTIC SOUTH PACIFIC WAS THE BIG ROMANTIC FANTASY IN THOSE TIMES.
NOT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE YOUR CLUB I CAN ONLY GUESS AS TO ITS AGE. IT WAS LIKELY MADE BEFORE WW2 ,BUT MAY HAVE BEEN BROUGHT BACK DURING OR AFTER THAT TIME. REASONS FOR THAT GUESS ON APPROX DATE. ARE PATINA ON THE WOOD, REMAINS OF WHITE LIME IN CARVED DESIGN. THE CLUB MAY HAVE BEEN MADE FOR USE WITH TWO HANDS AND THE PROJECTING THICKENED END THERE TO HELP THE BALANCE. THIS FORM OF CLUB WOULD HAVE BEEN USED FOR HIGH SPEED FENCING AND PARRYING LIKE A SWORD NOT JUST FOR BONKING.
THE SWORDS I HAVE MENTIONED WERE OF THE SWORD FORM AND WITH CARVED DECORATION TO THE STRIKING END BUT MANY QUITE DIFFERENT IN MANY WAYS.

[fearn]

As for age, I tend to think 1940s-1950s, mostly because I have a 1950s era walking stick from my grandfather, and it has a similar patina.

As for the decorations, I'm a bit troubled by the "lime" on the spearhead, because it is white near an edge area that is battered. To me, this suggests that the pattern was (re)colored more recently than the edge damage. "Lime" is in quotes because it could be something else, like powdered paint or chalk, in addition to real lime.

F

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by fearn

If I had to guess, I'd say post-WWII Hawaii or similar western place. To me, the face looks like a sketch from someone who had some western art training. The club looks like it was made from a plank. I'd also say that the butt end is not well designed, in that it forces the user to hold the club near an anti-node. If the blade is hit, I would guess that the handle would vibrate quite a bit.

Best,

F

Hi Fearn,

Where many are afraid to test pieces of their collections thinking ill will happen to them, I don't mind giving them a go in controlled circumstances, after all they are not made of glass and almost every piece was made to withstand the rigours of combat.
So I wrapped the head in a light handtowel and rubber bands this afternoon and gave it a few good whacks on the ole kick bag handing in the garage...I can hear the whinces in the crowd.

Feedback;
Single handed use on the cutting edge, no vibration at all and ain't nothing getting up if that hit you.
Single handed use on the flat side, ever so slight vibration...I mean tiny.
Double handed use, a fearsome well controlled weapon....

I gave these applications a go with meaning and to put it in perspective I am probably the size of most men from the regions.
A wood on wood contact in the flow of combat would differ little I feel but not to the extent of feeling any vibration through the cutting edge...

Gav